Solar dilemma shows short sightedness on province’s part

Liberal MPP, Pat Hoy

By Bruce Corcoran, Chatham Daily News

Our province’s electricity grid is such a mess that at least one provincial politician is blaming, well, his government’s own Crown corporation, Hydro One. The same politician, whose party cut hydro rates last November by 10 per cent, says his government isn’t increasing hydro bills fast enough to pay for updating the hydro grid.

All this has many who were bold enough to leap towards solar energy generation very worried.  The finger-pointing politician is none other than our own MPP, Pat Hoy.

“Why didn’t Hydro One know how much room was on the grid when the applications were approved last summer?” he asked when interviewed by The Chatham Daily News this week. Uhh, we aren’t the government, Pat, you are.

Hydro One has failed to approve all the solar panel applications the province received. Included in the group of concerned potential suppliers is a co-op of more than 700 farmers in Chatham-Kent and other southwestern Ontario communities who are part of a $70-million solar energy program based in Chatham, Agris Co-Operative Ltd.

Of 20,000 applications received by the province from farmers in Ontario, only 3,700 are plugged in to feed power into the grid. Another 2,500 are approved. That leaves 13,800 in limbo -nearly seven out of every 10 applicants.

Of the 700-plus farmers signed on with Agris, about half have seen their plans approved to date.

What happened? Was there just horrible communication between Hydro One and the government?

“Hydro bills are increasing to cover upgrades to 80 per cent of the grid, but not quickly enough to get everyone connected as we pay high subsidies for solar,” Hoy said.

Any fault lies in the government’s lap. Granted, the McGuinty government inherited an antiquated electricity grid from its predecessor, who had only just begun to clean up the mess that was the bloated money-squanderer known as Ontario Hydro. But to move forward on green energy initiatives without having the grid overseers in lockstep sets the stage for failure.

If Hydro One couldn’t deliver on microFit promises from the McGuinty government or failed to remotely anticipate the groundswell of interest in microFit, the program should have been streamlined to accommodate the pace at which it could successfully proceed. If a Hydro One official made false promises, or a cabinet minister made false assumptions, heads should roll.

Then again, the blame game is well underway.

65 thoughts on “Solar dilemma shows short sightedness on province’s part

  1. Oh boy, what a bunch of dolts ! Everybody knew what the liberals passed was impossible but Smitherman said do it and gave them no choice, the fault is not with Hydro One it’s with the corrupt liberals

  2. I have to defend hydro one……Mike Harris cut all the funding for Hydro One to create chaos to prove a case for privatization / i know people who worked) for hydro one ( I work at a nuclear generator) , every time a line (boom) truck failed it was relegated to be parked and replaced with a pick up truck !!!!. Retiring employees were not replaced and the staff was made up of temporary employees , who didn’t really care one way or the other. The line maintenance was in shambles because of this. This is still going on in the industry as far as staffing goes. We are following an American model and it doesn’t work; except to drive up costs and create profit. . Harris started this move to privatization and it has lead to this. Please get your facts straight.l

  3. Pat Hoy was one of the people who voted in favour of the Green Energy Act, see: http://mvwind.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1140

    So he should have KNOWN what a foolish and “Smitherman influenced” piece of crap that Bill 150 really was!

    This guy shouldn’t be allowed to be in Public Office let alone hold down a private sector job!

    Shame on him for trying to deflect this huge debacle from his shoulders onto Hydro One!

    Hydro workers are the only people that really know how bad this Green energy Scam is screwing up our grid!

    “The more desperate they get the more insane they sound!”………………

  4. “the McGuinty government inherited an antiquated electricity grid from its predecessor, who had only just begun to clean up the mess that was the bloated money-squanderer known as Ontario Hydro.”

    Yes and all these damned Liberals had to do was follow through with the existing
    LTEP and stuff their moronic green dreams up their ying-yangs! Because they didn’t any money squandered by Ontario Hydro is chump-change by comparison!

    The lying Liberals did this all by themselves. They can’t blame anyone else!

    Oh, Bob: “except to drive up costs and create profit.” This is ultimately self –defeating as we are surely going to find out!

    R.R.

  5. But I thought it was Maurice Strong who started it when when he took hydro money and bought property in the Rain Forest in Brazil because they were going to cut it down, this started in the early 90’s when he was head of Hydro during the Rae administration. He bankrupt Ontario Hydro and I understand that is the debt retirement charge on your hydro bill. That is what I have read.

    • Hey ep,
      I think you hit – the tip – of something very interesting!
      I find your comment – let’s say –
      well, I already said, “Interesting” –

  6. ep:

    “But I thought it was Maurice Strong who started it when when he took hydro money and bought property in the Rain Forest in Brazil because they were going to cut it down, this started in the early 90′s when he was head of Hydro during the Rae administration.”

    Your answer is accurate — and interesting. There is documentation of that step. Except fpr the “they were going to cut it down”. I am not sure that is true.

  7. Here’s the thing they knew the system was wayyy out of date and couldn’t possibly support such an undertaking .The cost is HUGE to replace the transformer/switches let alone the cost to run new lines to hook up to the grid where needed.Has ANYONE in government maybe thought what are the expenditures for Hydro One ANNNND are these costs something that needs to be reviewed ? Has anyone asked what does a transformer cost to be replaced ? are these suppliers , maybe taking advantage of Hydro One knowing they have to do it so here’s the price ? What a position to be in now isn’t it ? I think you will find many things at Hydro One are more like ‘buying a hammer for the military’ if you look into it ,which they won’t !

  8. Have a look here folks.
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/2003/main090203.htm

    “”We’re paying the price for eight years of neglect, of dithering, of uncertainty and mixed signals,” the former chairman of Ontario Hydro told CanWest Global.

    It was certainly uncertainty and mixed signals for taxpayers when Strong was Ontario Hydro chairman in 1994. It was in that year that he opened talks on the purchase of 12,500 hectares (30,875 acres) of a Costa Rican forest in a deal the (Opposition) Progressive Conservatives branded as “wacky” in the face of the utility’s then $34 billion debt.

    “How is this going to help the ratepayers in Ontario?” Chris Stockwell, Conservative energy critic of the day, demanded to know.”

  9. ”We’re paying the price for eight years of neglect, of dithering, of uncertainty and mixed signals,” the former chairman of Ontario Hydro told CanWest Global.

    LOL ,we have transformers from the 1950’s still in service. In Toronto transformers with a 30 yr life expectancy now over 50 years old in the underground system’s .Might make someone a little nervous walking the streets above them. So I believe they really have not clue how long things have never been properly addressed.

  10. How are IWTs and the Green Energy Act going to fix the energy grid system? The money being spent on a non-issue with nothing being spent on the problem is Liberal owned. No previous government involved.

  11. So the purchase of Costa Rican rain forest was a direct cost for Ontario Hydo production?

    And,just how much more nonsense has been added onto Hydro bills the past few years? Isn’t it time to take a look at Hydro production costs?

  12. NO bob mencel
    YOU get your facts straight!!! Ont. Hydro was a joke when Mike
    Harris took over. Employees were over paid big time, & had way
    too much job security, They couldn`t be fired regardless of how
    bad they were!! Harris inherited this disaster from the idiot N.D.P.. As an outsider looking in & an employer for many years,
    I could only shake my head & laugh hysterically, at Ont.voters
    stupidity. Electing the N.D.P.!!! to fix the liberals mess! Incredible

  13. Doug , you are obviously a very bitter conservative. I am not even sure why you would even be frequenting this website.Regardless of your anti union rant I stand by my facts . You said it best ” as an outsider” !!!

  14. Micro fit is a joke. Ratepaters have to pay for privately owned solar arrays? Only a door knob could come up with such a stupid plan. Great example of how this organization is stealing peoples money. Smart meters allowed them to charge double what electricity actually costs. Couldn’t they use their own massive profiteering to finance renewables? In the last 12 months there have been over 20% in increases plus HST. Quebec has 50% more capacity than Ontario thanks to federally funded hydro electric projects. Dolton could have bought cheap clean electricity from them but instead decided to redefine the definition of a moron. Absolute moron. Hike taxes to historical records and double the cost of electricity during a recession. Epic moron.

    • Norman…we could be lifelong friends….love the name LOL!
      It’s good to see there are people in Ontario that can still think for themselves!

  15. The story is totally missing the point .
    Energy is a necessity in a civilized world.
    You pay taxes so services can be provided.
    Hydro is a service.
    Anyone consider subsidizing hydro to keep it affordable to provide jobs and electricty to all our homes a waste? I know there is many places my taxes are wasted…this is not one of them in my view.
    This will however give you a better perspective of the gobbly gook rubbish spewed out about how and why and how much we got cheated….

    http://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/National_Office_Pubs/btn4_1.pdf

  16. This trainwreck has gone on for decades. It will never change or ” get better”. It was and still is a big fat stupid crown Corp robbing us. They tried to privatize it but no private investors were stupid enough to buy in to a bankrupt union/flunky politician controlled dogs breakfast. Nothing has changed nor will it ever. Decades and decades of past performance attest to it. Successive governments have failed to control it for over a hundred years – it just keeps getting worse. Based on past performance I am extremely fearful of what the future will bring. Sure enough end consumer prices doubled in less than 12 months recently and the premier announced an 88 billion dollar plan including 33 billion on dead end nuclear technology (with typical cost overruns of 400% not including the billion dollar refurbishments and shut downs at less than half or quarter their expected lifetimes). Smart investment? Isn’t the failed nuclear technology what bankrupted them in the first place? Smart of them to build that nuclear waste dump right beside a major city. Personally I would like to know where they are going to get the money from. Are banks gonna get duped by these losers again? Or just the taxpayers as per usual. That’s why I am putting up my own solar panels and going off grid ASAP. Since I can’t change anyone but myself. I am going to boycott them as best as I can. Use alternatives other than electricity for cooking etc.. I am changing since they won’t. Going back to the dark ages won’t be easy but at least I won’t be playing their game anymore. The energy from the sun is not only FREE but it is TAX FREE as well! Eat it. After 100 years of bs their only competition is the sun and wind. It will truly be a pleasure watching this monopoly slowly come to an unremarkable end. Boycott.

    • NB:

      I am sure that you have done your homework… BUT… just in case…
      http://www.enviroharvest.ca/electric_solar.htm

      Our exploration sites use Solar, gas generator and hopefully small wind generators in the near future — they have been specced — but not purchased. Our Solar situation is much better than Ontario as the camps are in the sub-tropical regions of the world. However, none of us would wish Solar Power on anyone except where necessary. At a price of $60K CDN for 10KW to $100K for a tracking version that is more efficient it is not cheap. You will also need Propane or Natural gas for cooking and clothes drying and heating. Typically you spend a lot more than if you need only piped natural gas (NG) and Grid Powered Electrical.

      The energy situation in our remote camps is “difficult” at best since we do not have “grid power”. We use “alternative energy” because it is the only alternative. Hauling in heavy lead acid batteries by burro is a strenuous exercise — so there must be a road network to support the site. If we do not have batteries even we do not get full power for more than six usable hours a day — as I recall. Mostly the panels are used for re-charging our laptop computers and cell phones and the Satellite Communications (Phone and Internet). These are all things that have guilt in batteries. Without the gas generators the computer mapping and internet data links would die in short order.

      Solar in Ontario is only viable because it is heavily subsidized, and there is no need to rely on the intermittent nature of the power.

      What you want to do is not impossible — but it is fraught with difficulties. Solar may be an option for you — but for most of us it is a pointless exercise. But if you can make it work, my hat goes off to you…

      Solar — we do it because we have to — we don’t have it because we want it!

      Best of luck to you.

  17. MA:

    I had a look at the salaries — if anything some of the non-union decision making positions may be paid a little low — about 10% to 40%. Some of the union negotiated technology and operator positions may be paid 10% to 30% high.

    Sometimes the salary/wage really does depend on what the consequences will be if a bad decision is made. It can be tough to understand and accept if you have never had that type of job where people may lose many millions of dollars and days of production if you are wrong. In other cases many thousands of homes may go without power and many millions of dollars will be lost in the event of a bad decision — or a string of them. But that’s life…

    I have had those types of jobs and had the high blood pressure, heartburn and shortened life expectancy that goes with it. Plus a lot of us spent the many years in school and had the cr@p jobs that went before the big bucks jobs… But the grass always does look greener…

    Better government policy made by better informed decision makers will go a lot further towards reducing energy costs than a witch hunt at Hydro One.Tossing out wind and Solar would do even more…

    Just my $0.02 worth…

  18. I built a small 300 watt photovoltaic array in my backyard with a 12v / 345 ah battery bank. It runs a 1000 watt inverter that powers everything except major appliances. This tiny system produces 1 kwh per day which is enough to supply 25% of my daily needs. The panels cost $760. The batteries cost $450 (should have bought them at walmart – only $110 each there = $330). The inverter cost $300. Not including tax. For $1500 I have cheap clean free energy for eternity from the sun. It doesn’t work if it’s too cloudy and I know that I will get less than half output in the winter. Solution: just add more panels. They are down to $1 a watt now!!!! The system has been so successful that I now intend to go all the way with lister diesel backup on wvo.

    • There are different issues with solar:
      The individuals use of solar energy when paid for by the user.
      The use of solar energy to sell to the grid by either compamies or individuals.
      The commercial production of solar panels which due to market forces on pricing now belong to foreign companies so not economically feasable to do in North America.

    • *I am not off grid yet but I run off of batteries and sun during on peak in summer and recharge at night during off peak. I have been able to reduce on peak usage to nearly zero. I have been able to reduce my daily usage from 20kwh to 4kwh through this and other conservation techniques. Now it’s easy to go off grid – just a few more cheap panels!! When I get the lister it will be used for co-generation and tri-generation eventually. Anyone that has a back yard and strong motivation for a productive and interesting hobby can do it. In fact I am predicting that anyone that can do it right now will thanks to the market stimulus the Independent Electrical System Operator has provided courtesy of the current government (and everyone that helped along the way to build this mess over the years – not all Dalton’s fault he inherited this joke). This will in effect be a boycott of the current unsustainable system and parts of it can die off as the market slowly reduces its dependence on the grid. TOU pricing is a good concept to curb peoples usage and avoid costly power purchases but they could have did it alittle more gently with a bigger savings differential rewarding off peak usage. By rewarding and encouraging off peak usage (say 3 cents per kwh) they would have avoided this conservation panic that has been so successful that now they pay contract penalties, sell offs, giveaways and even pay people to take our excess power because we aren’t using it. The TOU structured in this manner would have had the effect of rewarding conservation instead of using it as a tool to price gouge. The reason why they did it this way is because Ontario is poised to go bankrupt at over $200 billion in provincial debt. HST to the rescue. I guess when they go bankrupt they will finally get around to addressing the sunshine list properly. Boycott. Money controls everything.

  19. NB: Define success. Is it independence from the grid? Your success is not cheap. Pay back for the “free” energy would be about 30+ years if you are using the power to reduce consumption from the grid. Solar has some applications, but should be recognized as a weak source of electricity and more so in northern climates.

    • Commercial installs take 30 years to pay back…..But…. If you DIY it you can do it for cost and build incrementally as time and finances permit. If you can hook up a 12v battery you can hook up solar panels. How does less than a buck a watt sound to you? That’s a sample of recent pricing for solar panels. It probably won’t take me 30 years to pay back a princely sum of $1000-3000 grand*** – unless we get the right amount of responsible government involved – working together for ontario’s families. I think Dalton’s $88 billion dollar plan is just to top off the underfunded pension plans at ontario hydro 2.0. Good luck with that Sir I will be off grid by then.

      ***$1000-3000. Batteries and inverters not included. For me that represents 1-3 years hydro usage at current rates. 1-3 years pay off to complete boycott. Not 20 or 30. I built my tiny system overnite with readily available off the shelf components. Hint: don’t buy panels or batteries at crappy tire.

      • The major problem with home based solar systems is the amount of lead needed for lead-acid batteries around the world for electric storage. The world supply of lead is limited and battery manufacture also has many environmental hazzards.
        http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-08/uota-sir083111.php
        “Solar electricity responsible for lead emissions in developing countries”

      • Both the manufacture and disposal of lead-acid batteries present major environmental issues/concerns.

      • Thank-you for the informative article about problems they are having in third world countries handling lead safely. Meanwhile here in north america we mastered lead technology around 100 years ago. Lead is 99% recycled in north america. Don’t worry – we’ve figured it out.

        “The world supply of lead is limited….” Wow really? Maybe where you live – in the rest of the world it is cheap and plentiful. Lead acid batterys are the cheapest form of energy storage – that’s why we still use them – that’s a fact. Did you know? …that you even have one under the hood of your car! Granted, other than for cars not everyone wants them. Perfect. More for me.

        You can build your own battery bank incrementally for as little as $100 or as much as $2000 or more depending on your needs. And they can last up to 20 years. To me eventually building a $2000 battery bank that will last 20 years doesn’t seem like that much money – especially because it can be done incrementally. $2000 across 20 years is only a $100 a year. How does that compare to a hydro bill? A mortgage payment? Rent? Is that alot of money to you? What’s their big plan again? Hooking up a 12v battery is hard?

        I like those crown batteries – 1/4 ” thick positive plates for extra long life. But the Surrette batteries are the best right? I spent less on my current battery bank ($450) than some people spend in one electrical bill and I bought expensive ones! It’s been so successful I intend to continue buying cheap panels and batteries! It’s so easy, I am running two laptops, a fan, the modem, the router, a monitor, speakers and lights off my inverter/battery setup off the sun. Less than 300-400 watts total load. Even on a cloudy day I still get 10 or 30% capture. It’s so cheap and easy to do a small setup. Best of all we have had 4 blackouts since I built it and I am the only one in the neighborhood still online with all the lights on. My tiny battery bank is big enough to run all this for 24 hours allowing me to bypass TOU on peak pricing no matter when it is or how long. Throw on a few more panels and never pay Ontario Hydro again. The scary thing to hydro must be that everyone can do this right now and they will be out of a job. I’m doing it right now. NOBODY CAN STOP ME! HAHAHAHA!!!! What is ontario hydro gonna do? Block out the sun?

    • “Solar is a weak source of electricity in northern climates…”. Tell that to Germany. Despite the fact that they are further north than southern Ontario they have decided immediately to scrap their costly and dangerous nuclear program and replace it with solar. The thing that is cool about solar is that it is safe. Anybody can do it starting today. And the big plants barely require any personal to operate. But then again Germany also privatized their mail delivery system and it became cheaper and more efficient. Ontario Hydro 2.0 is at serious risk of committing economic suicide. How can home owners and seniors protect themselves?

      A) learn to speak german
      B) do nothing you are trapped in a captive market and you are helpless ( that’s the new Canadian spirit)
      C) Move to Germany
      D)keep drinking the tritium kool aid…..mmmm have you tried the new brain cancer flavor?
      E) move near the quebec border and throw an extension cord across to buy cheap power and resell to the grid here F)buy cheap canadian made solar panels and achieve total energy independence eventually
      G)copy the Germans again

      I realize that 7 multiple choice solutions is an unfair quiz. They really should have been spread out across 2 questions. Sorry about that. Also comparing Ontario to countries that listen to their citizens is not fair. Again I apologize.

      GLHF

    • Mr. Bates: (Please don’t frighten the sensitive among us — no more showers…)

      The issue with lead is what would be needed for a massive changeover to Solar.

      See here:
      http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8237

      For the USA:

      The National Battery

      Putting the pieces together, our national battery occupies a volume of 4.4 billion cubic meters, equivalent to a cube 1.6 km (one mile) on a side. The size in itself is not a problem: we’d naturally break up the battery and distribute it around the country. This battery would demand 5 trillion kg (5 billion tons) of lead.

      A USGS report from 2011 reports 80 million tons (Mt) of lead in known reserves worldwide, with 7 Mt in the U.S. A note in the report indicates that the recent demonstration of lead associated with zinc, silver, and copper deposits places the estimated (undiscovered) lead resources of the world at 1.5 billion tons. That’s still not enough to build the battery for the U.S. alone. We could chose to be optimistic and assume that more lead will be identified over time. But let’s not ignore completely the fact that at this moment in time time, no one can point to a map of the world and tell you where even 2% of the necessary lead would come from to build a lead-acid battery big enough for the U.S. And even the undiscovered but suspected lead falls short.

      The issue is not your house — it is many houses and the question becomes: Is it a good national policy? But, should a lot of people choose this path it is to the benefit of my family as some of them hold the tights to very large lead, zinc and silver deposits– so what do I care? Oh, and keep buying, thank you!

      Cheers and have a nice day!

      • Well that seals it. Who knew? So your saying It’s klnda like the new gold? I smell a new currency standard.

  20. Another Liberal Idiot!

    MPP Pat Hoy ‘Liberal spin master’ –
    “Why didn’t Hydro One know how much room was on the grid when the applications were approved last summer?” he asked when interviewed by The Chatham Daily News this week.

    What a crock!
    Nap time – Pat Hoy

    p.s. ………maybe because Hydro One marches to the orders
    of the Ontario Power Authority (OPA) –
    and no longer – is a planning authority.

  21. Ding! Dong! – NextEra calling!
    But the Obama administration has doubled-down on its investments in the industry. The Energy Department finalized last week an $852 million loan guarantee for a separate California solar project sponsored by NextEra Energy. Earlier in August, DOE finalized a $197 million loan guarantee for solar manufacturing facilities in Oregon and California.
    http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677-e2-wire/179005-solar-company-that-received-obama-administration-support-to-close-its-doors

    p.s. The Energy Department said Wednesday that it is “disappointed” that Solyndra is shutting down its manufacturing operations, but added, “We continue to believe the clean energy jobs race is one that America can, must and will win.”



    Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

  22. This article demonstrates that:

    Allowing competition in a free market is bad? Hahaha so much for NAFTA. Anyone who thinks they can out compete/produce china are smart? You don’t complain about it when you shop at Walmart right? So cheap solar panels are bad? Bad for who? Big corrupt monopolies? Lol. It’s not bad news to me the end consumer. Their failure means more cheap panels on the market. That’s great news for consumers BTW.

    • Them: Parts of Germany have already converted so successfully that the entire nuclear program is being shutdown.

      Us: Here in Ontario we want to just keep flushing billions down the nuclear toilet because we are smart.

      Them: Not only that but citizens in one town actually bought the electrical grid and now manage it themselves (video on YouTube).

      Us: “More bad news for solar?” Just keep shopping at Walmart. Everything is going to be alright.

      Me: Now that there are cheap Chinese panels here you can boycott Ontario hydro easily and affordably in the comfort of your own home. Woo hop – no sign of them blocking the sun yet. Keeping fingers crossed.

      Good luck with the underfunded hydro pension plan thing. Is that gonna show up as a separate charge on my next bill? Roflmao.

    • Norman:

      Maybe you can show this in a convincing manner:

      Them: Parts of Germany have already converted so successfully that the entire nuclear program is being shutdown.

      Then I am sure would flock to your business and buy all your Chinese solar panels…

      Till then…

    • David,

      I think Norman was saying what “They” are saying vs. what we are seeing. He wasn’t stating it as a fact – only a common propoganda point used by the other side.

      Correct me if I’m wrong, Norman.

  23. Oh yeah – I almost forgot!

    Who needs – McGuinty’s Queens Park –
    when you have the Ontario Power Authority (OPA).

    Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!

    p.s. maybe it’s time – for some profound language!

    Get Rid of the OPA!

    • Norman Bates:

      Put down your axe and do some better research…

      Recall what was under discussion:

      Maybe you can show this in a convincing manner:

      Them: Parts of Germany have already converted so successfully that the entire nuclear program is being shutdown.

      You have “shown” no such thing.

      Until you can back up your outrageous claims I will tend to take your utterings with a grain of salt.

      Till then…

    • Thank you for finding this valuable info.
      No – I do not google.
      later……..
      Warmer regards,
      F.T.

  24. Hmm, I don’t think that whole ‘shutting down nuclear thing’ is going so well in Germany:
    “Germany is importing massive amounts of nuclear-generated electricity from France following its decision to abandon atomic power in the wake of Japan’s Fukushima disaster.
    But it is still bracing for blackouts of the kind not seen since the Second World War as eight of the 17 reactors were switched off overnight in a populist move that is now seen as a rash decision.
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2031786/Germany-importing-electricity-France-decision-shut-nuclear-reactors.html#ixzz1Xn3LSqFU

    • At the time – I hear Greenpeace was headed towards Germany – panic set in –
      therefore the rash decision to switch off overnight –
      I mean – who want’s to upset Greenpeace.

      Rationing and Blackouts are so much more ‘luvvish’.
      You know – the – ‘do your part thingy’!

    • Ya and they just had one blow! Pretty sad. But we will get used to it I guess as it becomes more common. How many people die at solar collection facilities? I know I know. Apples. Oranges. Not fair. Oh well – solution boycott. Pension plan solved. It’s just consumer choice. Take control. Solar panels are replacing Germanies broken stupid monopoly. Hmmmm I wonder what is going to happen here?

      • Ontarians can’t afford to subsidise solars panel manufacturing and sell the panels at a loss. Can’t compete with Asian prices for solar panels. And Ontarians can’t afford to subsidise solar farms either. If people want to buy solar panels for their own use that’s ok but don’t ask your neighbours to pay for your solar panels.

    • Rotating blackouts? It’s a good thing most of them are already off “the grid” huh? Easy to do – everyone is doing it. I store my entire daily usage in 3 deep cycle marine batteries. Apparently it’s not rocket science. Google is your friend. Too bad we gave all our manufacturing jobs to Asia. Darn governments. Oh well boycott.

    • It sounds like it is going great. Better safe than sorry right? Especially with nuclear – you don’t get a second chance. How’s pickering/darlington going? Anymore “mineral water” spills? Why are childhood leukemia rates so high here? What’s the connection?

      Luckily for germany nuclear only makes up 20% of their market so it should be pretty easy to replace. Never mind green peace or green power being costly. It’s cheap compared to nuclear. Nuclear is such a money loser that canada is selling AECL. Dalton’s plan: build more candu reactors that bankrupted us in the first place. Rofl. Boycott.

      Candu: ancient reactor design. Never operates at more than 60-70% capacity. Costs 4 times more to build than quoted. You pay the difference and bankrupt yourself. Worldwide sales and operating history: prefer not to say.

      Have a nice day,

      Norman

  25. “Germany importing massive amounts ofpower and facing rolling blackoutsltns likes of which they haven’t seen since the second world war…..”. Roflmao. Bs article. Let’s do the math.

    Germany has 17 reactors. They shut down the 8 worst ones. Nuclear power there accounts for only 20% of their generating capacity. So basically 10% of their generation is going offline. Big deal. With minimal conservation efforts they won’t even notice it. Nice bs article though.

    Ontario is operating with overcapacity right now thanks to conservation efforts and businesses leaving and yet we want to spend how much on nuclear that we don’t even need? Gotta keep those fat sunshine lists and unions rolling in the money while the rest of Ontario starves? I have never laughed so hard in my life. Throughout history there have been technological revolutions that made certain industries/jobs obsolete. Thank god one is happening now to correct this situation no matter what anybody does or says – you can’t stop change. 10% conservation I could do in my sleep. I’m at 500% reduced usage already. I never have blackouts since I am partially off grid. Hey don’t blame me – I am not responsible for any of it nor do I want to continue supporting it in any way shape or form. My solar panels are making free energy effortlessly at no cost. No operators. No fake energy market. Pretty hard to argue that. The whole world is changing with me. Google it. Adios hydro monopoly!

    • Individual use of solar panels is NOT THE ISSUE HERE as long as you pay for them.
      The use of subsidies to pay for the manufacture of solar panels and selling them at a loss is a big issue. Can’t compete with Asian solar panel pricing.
      Using Ontario Hydro bill payers money for subsidies to pay for solar farm electricity is a nother big issue.

    • Norm Dawling!
      I’m going out for a cigar!
      Remind me later!
      F.T.

      • Look at those stats! Wow. Enabling policies? None required. People just put them up and fake problem disappears. No useless lawyers/legislation required to put up solar panels. Tax free energy hooray! Rejoice everyone. This means an end to big oil too since electric cars will eventually roll out – and run on sunshine? Yessiree. Lol. No more stupidity at the pumps plus hidden taxes, double taxes and HST? Sign me up! Roflmao. That’s my policy.

        http://howisearth.com/2010/02/03/solar-energy-renewable-energy/

        Best regards,
        Norman

    • Barbara,

      Points taken. I apologize. Did you guys feel that earthquake recently? Yikes! I ran outside!

      Sincerely,
      Norman

    • Yes, felt the earthquake. Was like being in a row boat in choppy waters here. North America gets it all when it comes to natural disasters. The U.S. interstate highway system was built so that large urban areas could be evacuated. These highways sure have saved many lives.

  26. Here’s how you do Solar Power “Obama Style”:
    http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/bobbeauprez/2011/09/11/obamas_pet_billionaire_at_solyndra_make_take_white_house_down/page/full/

    Early press reports following Solyndra’s bankruptcy announcement disclosed that hundreds of thousands of dollars were contributed by shareholders and executives of Solyndra to the Obama 2008 campaign. One of the company’s largest investors, George B. Kaiser of Tulsa, reportedly contributed $53,500 personally and bundled large amounts more for Obama in 2008. Kaiser is a billionaire with banking and oil and gas interests that rank him among the wealthiest people in the world. Kaiser also visited the White House 16 times between 2009 and 2011. The White House public records indicate that three of Kaiser’s visits were on March 12, 2009 and one the following day in which he met with “a Senior Advisor, the former Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors, the Deputy Director of the Domestic Policy Council, and the Deputy Director of the National Economic Council.” The $535 million loan was officially approved one week later.

    The Green Economy — bring money!

    • Hey Dave,
      from your link –

      Money for nothing!
      Chicago-style cronyism!
      of course – nothing like this could be happening in Ontario.

      The Solyndra debacle is rapidly becoming a White House scandal. It is far too symptomatic of an Administration that is founded not on principle, but on Chicago-style cronyism and political corruption in the worst sense of the term……………

      p.s. Keep following this story!

    • Haha they thought they could compete against china? Great example why lawyers don’t make good politicians. Never have. Never will. Lawyers running the show here in canada have devastated us and will continue to do so. Look at Dolton. Secret laws. Secret deals. $236 billion in debt. Roflmao. Won’t be long now. It will be particularly funny watching the sunshine list when they don’t get the pay cheques or pensions. I hear Mc Donalds is hiring. The next 20 years are going to be really funny. I will be off grid growing my own bio diesel so I really don’t care. Just funny to watch – except for all the crime. The nanny state will take care of it right? Roflmao.

  27. In the LTEP, on page 59 it states:

    “Over the next five years, however, residential electricity prices are expected to rise by about 7.9 per cent annually (or 46 per cent over five years). This increase will help pay for critical improvements to the electricity capacity in nuclear and gas, transmission and distribution (accounting for about 44 per cent of the price increase) and investment in new, clean renewable energy generation (56 per cent of the increase).”

    One would think that Pat Hoy might have spent a few minutes reading the crap his own government spent millions of our tax dollars snail-mailing out to all of us last November!

  28. Ernest:

    That is a good argument for lowering taxes — no need to create a subsidy — just collect less. Those who wish to will buy Solar Panels. Others will buy iPods and Steaks at the Keg — in both cases the parties will receive more for their money. 🙂

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