Turbines part of health study

Dr. Sivoththaman

By Tracey Richardson, Markdale Standard

A study of renewable energy that will include health effects from wind turbines is getting underway, but it will take at least five years.

Dr. Siva Sivoththaman, a University of Waterloo professor of electrical and computer engineering, is spearheading the government sanctioned study into the safety of renewable energy and its health effects. Wind turbines as well as solar energy will be part of the study.

At Friday’s Grey Bruce public health board meeting, Medical Officer of Health Dr. Hazel Lynn said four of the project’s 10 study areas will focus on wind turbines.

Last fall, several municipalities in Grey-Bruce asked the health unit to conduct a study on health effects from turbines. Lynn believes there is merit to complaints from turbine neighbours and authored a report early this year that suggested a large-scale study was needed. The health unit, however, was not the appropriate agency for the job, she said.

What Lynn hopes to see, she said Friday, is “an epidemiological study to know the prevalence of disrupted people and why that is. Is it because of distance to the turbines, is it because of noise, those kinds of things.”

Lynn said Sivoththaman’s study will address those issues. She expects it to be done “with robustness and with data you can count on.”

She called it a very important step. “It was my recommendation that this kind of research be done by a university or research institute which is non-biased and they have the expertise to do it.”

The study will include developing new technical approaches and guidelines in setting standards to ensure optimal health and safety in the manufacturing, use and end-of-life phases of the renewable energy technologies. It will also involve collaborating with researchers from Waterloo’s faculty of applied health sciences.

Funding is being provided by the Ontario Ministry of the Environment, which has allocated $1.5 million over five years.

37 thoughts on “Turbines part of health study

  1. LETS STOP THE MADNESS UNTIL THE STUDY IS COMPLETE. EVERY MUNICIPALITY SHOULD INSIST ON A MORITORIUM .

  2. I still say 1.5 million is a pretty cheap way for the Ministry of the Environment to pacify the peasants while they forge ahead and get as many of those suckers up as possible before the results of the study weigh in! Unfortunately there is only a minority of municipalities that have passed a resolution asking for a moratorium. The majority of municipalities still have their head up their butt and are either in denial or in bed with the wind industry. We will only see action if enough people take to the streets in civil disobedience on the fact that precautionary principle was ignored with in the Ministry of the Environment.

  3. Interesting that the Province chose U Waterloo (a fabulous school IMHO, but not a med school). From its website:

    “When people think of Waterloo, they may first think: Co-op. Engineering. Computers. And while Waterloo is justly famous for these programs, the university is also home to a surprising range of educational experiences.”

    “Based in our faculties and colleges are nine schools: accounting and finance; architecture; computer science; environment, enterprise and development; international affairs; optometry; pharmacy; planning (above right, planning students in action); and social work.”

  4. “The study will include developing new technical approaches and guidelines in setting standards to ensure optimal health and safety in the manufacturing, use and end-of-life phases of the renewable energy technologies. ”
    “Funding is being provided by the Ontario Ministry of the Environment”
    So they are admitting that they are putting the cart before the horse? What about those who already are affected by their inadequate guidelines, and all those who will be affected by them. 5 years and Ontario is ruined by Industrial Wind Turbines with inadequate setbacks.

  5. Until this study is done, a moratorium on wind turbine projects is a must. I just hope that this study has the medical expertise to do the job. As well we need a detailed study on the environmental consequences.

  6. Funding is being provided by the Ontario Ministry of the Environment. those are the humanoids that are allowing this to continue on. How can these persons be responsible enough to trust? They to me are the root of this problem in the first place. They should shut all development down now. Studies are usually done before they spend hoards of investments dollars. These MOE’ers are screwing with our money. our health and personal and property rights. They need an ear full from the public. They are irresponsible loyalist to the Premier and the big Wind developers. How can we trust that this group in this study. Anything that is sponsored by government cannot be trusted anymore they have to much invested in this propaganda.. You look at the judges that have all ready ruled irresponsibly we need an outside study, far from any wind groups or government group to make it fair.

  7. Yup, let’s get an engineer to do a health study…funded by the MOE which is causing the problem! Outcome? Hmmmmmmm…..

  8. Would we hire an epidemiologist to study our electrical system? Then why would we trust an engineer to conduct medical studies?
    This is just a stall tactic to ram as many wind turbines as possible in while they are ‘studying’ the health effects.

    More sophistry!

  9. This sounded good when I first read it, but I think it will end up being like the so called studies done here, funded by the U.S. department of Energy and Universities that have an “renewable energy” department, ie (wind). Touted by the Wind Lobbyist as “the study”, which of course says ” don’t worry, no problem”, everything great”.

    There is enough evidence that there are negative health affects… I find it difficult to understand that those in “power” feel that people will abandon their homes, rent sleeping homes, and take active roles in trying to inform others of the health issues just because they don’t like the “looks”.

    Until we get others informed about what’s going on; we at least in the U.S. will continue to give the wind industry a blank check to put these useless things up, and continue to ruin the property values, health and landscape of our rural areas.

  10. There should be a new course in our education system called “How to Identify a LIAR!”

    Our children could then be taught with a “real world example” like the Wind Agenda presently being perpetrated on the Citizens of Ontario by McGuinty and company as the prime example how an Industry and Government can LIE all the way to the bank in order to make their destructive agenda take hold against the wishes of it’s own population!

    To announce a 5 year study on Health Effects of Wind Turbines by an engineer hired by the very Government who has rammed these monsters down OUR throats in order to “appease critics” of Wind Energy due to adverse Health Effects is not only insulting but downright “criminal”!

    No more pussy footing around here folks!…no more “asking” for help here folks!…………no more studies by individuals that PROVE Ill Health and then being submitted to a corrupt agency for review!………………..Now it’s time to stand up and start making signs for protests wherever these sleazy developers and politicians show their beady eyes with 3 simple bold lettered words on it “GET OUT NOW”!

    Not only get the Turbines out but to the Politicians; get out of office!

    These words are now being used in every country in the world today that has started a revolution to take back their country from thieves and dictators who have used them for their own material gain and power. It is no different there than here in ONTARIO!

  11. Hmm?

    Sounds as though a Prof. of electrical and computer engineering would be more into modeling studies and the “technical approaches” will probably just be better ways of “hiding the decline” in health and environment.

    Don’t get your hopes up, human health is an afterthought, well below the priority of ensuring the health and safety of turbines.

  12. NSG Said:

    Yup, let’s get an engineer to do a health study…

    Not so fast. That sort of background is what allows someone to dig through the design, operational parameters and the applicable mathematics and statistics. That is crucial to the study.

    My opinion is that without that strong technical available to the researchers background a medical study is useless. So what if we find medical issues? What caused them? How do we prevent them? …and so on…

    Just to study the noise you need to know and understand Fourier analysis, time domain and frequency spectrum analysis — you also need to understand why those techniques are useless unless modified to deal with non-stationary, random waveforms… (Anyone here care to comment on what I said and why I might or might not be correct? Feel free– I am willing to learn.)

    This study will depend more on the attitude and integrity of the good professor leading the study than anything else…

    I say the same to anyone else expressing similar concerns.

    Of course those credentials could be used to whitewash the study — it certainly occurred with the ClimateGate Inquiries in Britain. It is part of the British system to protect the wrong-doers through the Inquiry system and to not embarrass the Government of the Day.

    To make my point — I have not commented that much on the techniques being use by anti-Wind turbine movement because I believe that everyone (pro and anti) is using the same techniques — which I now have a fair degree of certainty are not sufficient or effective. Research by the US Navy Sonar researchers appear to support my concerns. So if anyone doubts me — start digging and see if my concerns make sense. i.e. that FFT and DFT transform approaches will not necessarily revel the low frequency components of Wind Turbine Site noise – expect possibly on occasion — and through serendipity. I could be wrong — but I am betting against conventional analysis techniques and I have now had confirmation from two sources who have people far more skilled than me that I’m likely on to something — and they have been using the traditional techniques.

    Cheers!

  13. Every farmer, landowner, wind company,
    wind developer, wind promotter, every
    municipality, county, provincial and
    federal representative, every lawyer
    and court that has taken part in this
    wind scam, or passed the responsibility
    on to someone else or turned their backs
    on the people, should be held accountable
    for what they have done to allow this
    renewable energy crap to get the point
    we are at now.

    Our governments should be dissolved,
    our legal systems overhauled, and the
    people should take back their democratic
    rights. Enough of the bureaucratic
    charlatans destroying our homes, our
    health, and our future.

    They should all be held accountable,
    but no amount of money will ever restore
    our country or our communities to what
    they were. In the end we will all have to
    pay to get out of the mess they have
    caused. No amount of money will ever
    close the rift that they caused in our
    communities.

    That said, I do have faith in the good
    people who are standing up and fighting
    for what is right. If we keep it up,
    the truth should come out ahead of
    the greedy, lying, dishonest people
    that have caused us all this grief.

  14. On a further note — some political, policy, opinion and views and a bit of technical reading…

    Read as much as you can and keep an open mind. Don’t stop at the first article. (Even when you see “unholy Alliance” — get beyond that and stay open… There is some real sense in some of the articles…

    http://www.wise.uwaterloo.ca/communications.html

    Never assume that you know who your friends are….

  15. Whether or not this guy can study effectively health or techniques that will produce a “fair study” is moot seeing that this study will be completed in 5 years!

    Here is the scenario in a nutshell. In five years all the wind turbines will be installed and twisting in the wind ..or not!…………..Ontario will be basically a third world country……………jobs will be not available…..food will have to be imported to replace the farmlands lost to Industry…………homes will be abandoned and bulldozed…..electricity prices will be so high that only bankers and politicians will be able to light their homes……and on and on..

    So why are we even discussing the merits or drawbacks of this man who is obviously a “red herring” for the MOE and Premier’s Office to study “health”?

    This statement is an INSULT to Ontarians..plain and simple……………an enormous INSULT and to put this statement next to the Toronto Star report yesterday that Millions of dollars were paid to people to NOT PRODUCE electricity should make every single citizen of Ontario’s “blood boil”!

    Doesn’t get any more direct than this. Drag these people out of the pink building by their feet kicking and screaming into a court of Law and prosecute them for their actions!!!!!!!

    Where are our POLICE?

  16. OH WHAT THE HECK…TIME TO VENT

    FOR THE GOOD OF ALL
    DALTON McGUINTY HAS GOT TO FALL
    DO NO GOOD DUGUID
    DID NO GOOD AT ALL

    SMITHERMAN IS A SLITHERMAN
    AND CAROL MITCHELL RINGS HER BELL
    WELL CAROL MITCHELL … YOU CAN GO… STRAIGHT TO HELL
    WE KNOW WILKINSON IS A BIG FAT LIAR
    SO HOLD HIS FEET…. TO THE FIRE

    LIBERAL LEADERS EACH AND ALL
    YOU ARE ABOUT TO TAKE A GREAT BIG FALL
    IF YOU VOTED FOR THE G E A
    YOUR TIME IS UP ..IT’S JUDGMENT DAY

    LIBERALS LIED TO US ..THEY HAD THEIR WAY
    NOW ITS TIME FOR THEM TO PAY
    DON’T BE SHY… YELL AND SHOUT
    GET OUT! McGUINTY GET OUT! GET OUT!

    NOW OUR STORY HAS BEEN TOLD
    WE CAN’T BE BOUGHT – WE CAN’T BE SOLD.
    TO THIEVES AND CROOKS AND MPP’s
    GET OUT NOW…. WE WON’T SAY PLEASE

  17. Doesn’t get any more direct than this. Drag these people out of the pink building by their feet kicking and screaming into a court of Law and prosecute them for their actions!!!!!!!

    Ok Fine. Hang em high!

    Nothing more to discuss. Close this site and get the mob ready to rule.

    Life should improve immediately.

    Best wishes and good luck with the new policy.

  18. “……………into a court of Law and prosecute them for their actions!!!!!!!”.

    I guess that’s “mob rule?”……………..

  19. Quixote:

    The rhetoric is a bit much…
    Drag these people out of the pink building by their feet kicking and screaming

    I am trying to separate what needs to be done immediately from the long term approach. You want to apply a short term approach (hang em now!) to what needs to be done to prevent this cr@p in the future.

    We have not yet heard a word form the good doctor, nor have we seen any action (or inaction). So why not spend the energy in this thread in discussing what we would like to put in front of the good Dr. for evaluation. If he won’t listen to concerns of us “small people” (to quote BP) then we can look at your solution…

    This problem will repeat for many years and many situations unless we develop a much better understanding of how to evaluate technology and the effects thereof.

    All I am asking is that you separate the issue(s).

    If you cannot do that then your opinion is not worth reading because you will confuse the issues in the same manner as our current crop of incompetent politicians — albeit in the other direction.

    Quite frankly it’s just unhelpful to see this rhetoric all the time.

    In private — I suspect my rants against some of these people are far worse than any you have ever expressed.

    However, I would like two things:

    1) Stop the current insane progression of “green Power” that isn’t.
    2) Find out why the evaluations of the efficacy of Green Power was so misjudged.

    All in the name of preventing a repeat.

    Now if we cannot do what I suggest — or something similar there is nothing on this blog worth reading and I will go pick my nose for something constructive to do rather than participate here.

    Now to end this on a positive note!

    Your opinions are respected here. So lead!

  20. Well put David;

    Here is where this “vitriolic spewing is coming from:” as far as I am concerned.

    For over 4 years now on almost a daily basis we and I mean many, many Wind Warriors have been researching, writing reports, maintaining websites, confronting news outlets, politicians, Government Officials amongst others with thousands upon thousands of pages of “evidence” why Wind Generation by huge Industrial machines doesn’t create Green Energy but causes utter destruction, health problems and financial failure everywhere it is established.

    We have attempted to educate our fellow Ontarians in a short time what has taken decades of behind the scenes “antics” by unsavory and unscrupulous power brokers to “set up”.

    We have gone through many phases of growth here, from the very beginning of asking the simple question: What is Wind Generation?” all the way to the present day where we are asking: “Why aren’t these people in Jail?”

    It may seem that this forum is just a rather convenient place to carry on a debate and share information with others and by doing so create some discussion. But underlying this website and the rather heated discussions once in a while is that there is a WAR going on here.

    A WAR to save innocent people’s lives from harm and sickness that is very real and happening as I type. People have lost their homes, their sanity, their health due to the actions of a few and these “few” have never had to answer for their less than human behaviour.

    We have lost our Democracy and now we are losing our ability to pay for heat and Hydro due to the same people’s actions that seem to go unchecked by any legal entity even though we all know that there is a strong Police Force active in our Province.

    We all know that we can be charged at any time with using a cell phone while operating a vehicle and many are surprised that the Police are able to identify this crime while we are driving in traffic and basically almost “invisible” to any authority! YET Politicians, Industrialists, Salesmen, and even huge Government agencies can operate for YEARS actually stealing, bribing, and harming people without one single investigation, or even scrutiny by the “establishment”?

    That is why WE and WE alone have to call for an outcry so bloody loud that our representatives that are being paid to protect US have to begin to act and act now on tearing this wall of secrecy and foul deeds apart.

    The only thing that seems to get any attention anymore is “massive public outcries”…………..to follow any other path at this point in time is fruitless!

  21. For what it’s worth here’s my 2 cents,

    We have come along way from 2 years ago when we still felt we had to be politically correct and always begin our comments with “I have nothing against wind turbines..but….

    Now we see that the whole world is pissed off about the violation and take over.

    Everyday more critical reports come out in major newspapers. Wind companies have admitted they are hurting financially due to opposition. The party is over.

    If we read that a group of people in France or Germany or Australia had a massive uprising and revolt , we would jump on it and take to the streets with signs in support ..right?

    Well since Ontario seems to have surprised everyone and especially the wind developers because we have put up such strong opposition …why don’t we take the lead and get loud and noisy? I would bet the farm (pun intended) that many many people the world over would join us. I think there would be such an outpouring of support that the governments the world over would have to listen and rethink this whole mess. After all this is a global disaster.

    It really does feel like things have heated up and are coming to a head..don’t you feel it too?

    Please comment and let me know what you both (Quixote and David) think. OK?

  22. This has been all very entertaining…

    David, I went to your Uof W link and found this:

    Jatin Nathwani, executive director, University of Waterloo Institute for Sustainable Energy, says engineering programs are going green, “but it’s patchy with bits here, bits there. You don’t see a coherent focus.”
    That’s something he’s out to change at the Ontario school. He was hired last fall to pull together environmental research programs across the University of Waterloo. The institute now has 65 faculty members from engineering and many other disciplines working together on a myriad of initiatives. The institute itself is housed in a green-energy building built with a $24-million grant from the Canada Foundation for Innovation, an independent corporation created by the federal government to pay for research infrastructure.

    Since the man wrote the “Red Flags on Green Energy” article there might be cause for hope though the fact that there is now money in green, note the federal grant for a new building, turns it back into a crap shoot.

    Then there is my own experience years ago when I read some environmental sciences courses from UofW and took my Prof. to task for not getting the campus to restore it’s watercourse and mandate proper setbacks from it. Needless to say I did not do well in that setting…

    So, unless that new “green” building is well away from the river and there are native trees and plants buffering it’s banks, it is probably all window dressing.

  23. I agree with Quixoite as we see so much debate and politeness and have proven unsuccessful because we are dealing with very large rich corporations that are feeding on the general publics support of green energy it seems we grow weary and our energy level wears off. i am very frustrated myself living next to these dam turbines and another day passes by I wonder if anything will break threw but it seems to go backwards or in slow-motion. I would like to ask David if he is affected directly or living next to turbines and if so I commend you for your tolerance and patience but I myself am very upset with our government. They have been playing a game with us on our expense and cheating all the way. So yes we need to get very angry and dismiss this crime fast. I am very tired and want this to end NOW.

  24. PS I won’t last five years and maybe by then they will have my farm and plant more on them.

  25. …I won’t last five years and maybe by then they will have my farm and plant more on them.

    That’s correct Jack. They plan to ram thousands of these things down our throats, close to homes, because THEY want YOU off THEIR land!

    Enough said, plain and simple. So how is a Health Study not a big, fat, Red Herring?

  26. So PG,

    Please ask Prof. Natwani to request a moratorium for five years or until the study is completed.

  27. “A moratorium on future developments” and SHUT down EXISTING developments”. Let’s not forget about the people who became ill and abandoned their homes because of existing wind turbines.

  28. zen2then, I don’t disagree at all.

    I do disagree with urging studies to report in too short a timeline.

    A moratorium would be appropriate now, and I think we can establish one politically, in October (at the latest).

    I also concur with David R’s comments on the Hanna case verdict – which communicated to me not that there weren’t health concerns, but just that the minister thought about the possibility of them along with a bunch of other factors.
    As if other factors, for a technology that accomplishes nothing, could outweigh the health concerns. It may be the law, but the law could also be an … a donkey.

  29. Why should victims be expected to suffer for 5 years? At the very least a way out should be provided for the people suffering now, without them having to spend their life’s savings to find some sort of relief. It’s bad enough they’ve lost their homes. They should not have been exposed to the probability of developing VAD, let alone allow it to progress over 5 yrs and suffer further from it’s consequences. They should not have to spend every minute of their time in hell, calling the Spills Action Centre, recording their symptoms, wind directions, weather patterns. Let the farmers who leased their land be the guinea pigs!

    STOP THE WIND TURBINES!

  30. OK……………I’ve read your comments and I definitely think that in most cases a quiet and truthful discussion goes a long way in making a point as it usually “disarms” a flake like Kris Stevens who raves on as if he was living in Green Wonderland.

    BUT

    I paid out damn good money many many years ago to the University of Waterloo who were teaching Earth Science Courses and then I went on to take Landscaping with Environmental Design and on and on……………………..I thought the Earth was going to burn up……………..I thought by 2050 there would never be another drop of snow throughout th World…….I thought that by getting involved and volunteering for Environmental Programs locally I could make a difference……..that’s what University of Waterloo taught me to believe and how to think!

    Fast forward almost 30 years an here we are today!……….everything I thought was true was nothing more than a “crock of $h!t!”…………….Lies, corporate tentacles inside a great University forking out huge amounts of money to instill their Green BS and teach (brainwash) our young to believe in a Fake Industry so that their leaders can have a ready supply of “certified and diploma laden students who owe student loans up the ying yang, ready willing, and able to GO GREEN and continue the MYTH!

    You don’t even want me to get started about U of W!

    Be satisfied I’ve turned my rage on McGuinty!

  31. Wow, it’s amazing what a B.S religion this Green has become. Allowing hysterical construction of Industrial Wind Turbines in our open skies.
    Thanks for a site like this where those who can see that the emperor isn’t wearing any clothes isn’t alone.
    We do stand by those who are suffering. I am sorry that this government has failed you, I don’t want the citizens of Ontario to fail you as well.

  32. Ian:

    …Not that my research would have helped because I have never published on medical issues — and probably never will. I have stuck to the “do they deliver issues”…. and they don’t. That is a far different argument — technical and economic.

    Indeed, we are seeking Leave to Appeal, clearly focused on the lamentably low standard of proof and inadequacy of the evidence provided by the Ministry in defense of their actions.

    And I think that will be interesting as the judge pointed out that the minister is the only one that can review his decisions — as the law is written. My position form the beginning is that this is a constitutional challenge based around the charter of rights and freedoms. Can the citizens of Ontario be subjected to laws for which the only appeal is to the creator of the law? Did the law remove independence from the judiciary?

    But it’s not my $$$ this time and indeed I have been there before. It’s your turn…

    But Again — this about the future — not the past.

    …and I never said I agreed with the Judge’s ruling.

    A Federal judge once pointed out to me that a judge is master of his own court and can decide what the rules are and what evidence could be heard.

    I leave you with that thought from which I am sure that you can divine my opinion on the case.

    Quixote said:

    I couldn’t succeed because I questioned the “crap” I was hearing and that “aint a good thing at York!”.

    Universities are NOT hotbeds of academic freedom and free speech! Anything but!

    Been there done that too! Suspect we have similar tee shirts.

    And now that we are totally off-topic I think I will abandon this. Good idea — no takers — sent the profs some hate mail. I’m outta here!

  33. The good doctor works for a university.
    Universities are the most political places on earth.
    Universities receive funding from government and industries.
    So does the good doctor.
    Need anything else be said?

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