Ignatieff acknowledges issue with democracy

By Monte Sonnenberg, Dunnville Chronicle

NANTICOKE – Federal and provincial Liberals are not necessarily on the same page when it comes to energy policy in Ontario.

During a town-hall style meeting in Nanticoke Friday, federal Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff and local Liberal candidate Bob Speller of Villa Nova raised questions about key planks in the McGuinty government’s green energy program.

Speller expressed reservations about the way wind turbines and other green-energy technologies are being imposed on rural communities while Ignatieff expressed bewilderment with the province’s handling of the Nanticoke Generating Station.

The discussion turned to local energy issues when Pat Morris of Dunnville expressed her dismay over the pending arrival of nearly 200 industrial wind turbines in Haldimand County. Morris only learned what was happening in her community because a neighbour took time to bring it to her attention.

“I have a problem with the Green Energy Act,” Morris told the assembled throng at the union hall of Local 8782 of the United Steelworkers in Nanticoke. “I am desperate and I will tell you why. This is a map of the 200 turbines that are going to be brought to my area. Samsung did not bring this to me. The town did not bring this to me. The province did not bring this to me. My neighbour brought this to me.

“I haven’t been able to sleep since I’ve seen this. I cry every day. I need your help. I’m going to be part of an involuntary experiment on the health effects of wind turbines on people.”

Speller and Ignatieff sympathized with Morris. Ignatieff said the way wind turbines are being imposed in Ontario “raises an issue about democracy.”

Speller cited the results of a recent survey which found that more than 50% of people in Ontario want more research into the health effects of wind turbines before they become general throughout the province.

“I have to take what you say to (Ontario Energy Minister) Brad Duguid and tell him there are problems with wind turbines,” Speller added. “I will tell him that you are not being heard.”

Ignatieff spelled out his preferred strategy for the Nanticoke Generating Station now that the province if phasing out coal as a source of energy.

“We have to figure out what to do with coal-fired plants,” he said. “I think we’ve got to keep Nanticoke open. The question is not what do we feed into Nanticoke. We’ve got a billion dollars worth of plant there. Are you nuts shutting this thing down? I’m looking at what’s happening in Japan and I’m thinking one thing – natural gas. We’ve got more natural gas in this country than you can shake a stick at.”

This was Ignatieff’s fourth visit to the riding of Haldimand-Norfolk in recent years. Ignatieff’s itinerary Friday also included a stop in Brantford. Ignatieff said there is a strong chance Canadians will go to the polls sometime this spring.

“Nothing is inevitable in life, but it is kind of looking like it at the moment,” he said. “I think that would be the honest answer.”

39 thoughts on “Ignatieff acknowledges issue with democracy

  1. The problem with the Federal Liberal Party is that Dalton’s brother is a member. I wouldn’t vote for the Federal’s Liberal’s if you paid me.

  2. Second World Renewable Energy Assembly (WREA) 2007,Nov.19-21,2007,Bonn,Germany.
    Attendees include:
    Osman Benchikh, UNESCO,program specialist renewable energies.
    Hermann Scheer, WCRE
    Jose Etcheveery, York University, Ontario,Canada
    Michael T. Eckhart, ACORE, also supported passage of Ontario Green Energy Act,Feb.2009.

    Benchikh,Scheer and Etcheveery also attended the World Wind Energy Conference, Kingston ON, June 24-26,2008.


    “Powering China’s Development: The Role of Renewable Energy” by Eric Martinot visiting professor at Tsinehua University, Beijing,China

    Eric Martinot attended the World Wind energy Conference,Kingston,ON, June 24-26,2008.
    Eric Martinot has also been convening lead author IPCC and UN consultant.


  3. In other news..

    Read the side bar. It seems a Spanish region is imposing a “visual tax” on turbines.. Good idea. Make it so expensive that the wind industry goes elsewhere.

  4. “Speller cited the results of a recent survey… more than 50% of people in Ontario want more research into the health effects of wind turbines…” If this is an accurate survey, we need to be contacting more of our friends and relatives in the large cities of the province and explaining why they should be on board with this issue. We need to aim at a 75% number to be letting Dalton and Duguid and Arlene King know how we all feel about this. We can`t allow wind turbines to become the status quo across rural Ontario.

  5. “Third Industrial Revolution: Canadian Executive Round Table” , meeting held May 28,2009 at BLAKES Toronto ON, office.

    Meeting topic is to begin to develope “The Third Industrial Revolution”

    Attendees included:
    George Smitherman,MPP
    Paul Shervill, V.P. Conservation, OPA
    Don Tench, IESO
    John Wilkinson,MPP
    Keith Stewart, WWF-Canada
    Paul Gipe, Green Energy Act Alliance


  6. We should all pitch some dollars in and advertise in the TO papers.
    We need to educate people on the deception of this form of renewable energy being green.
    Show them why they are being cheated..these guys will get paid to produce and not to produce.

  7. The Ontario government likes to advertise buying food from Ontario, but they don’t mention the deplorable living conditions those who produce the food will have to live in when the Industrial Wind Turbines dominate their homes.
    I agree, advertising the future designed by Dalton for Ontario may help people comprehend how Ontario is being sold out without our consent.
    Good things don’t grow from Samsung.

  8. I have sent my daily letter to MPP, MP, local gov, news and other places that come up. Sent in the Trillium protest again (end funding to wind lobbyist, right hand side of this page.) It may not sound like much but if they start getting thousands of these messages it will have some effect.
    What have you done?

    Ernest Horvath, That is a great idea. We will have to do more than tell you it is a great idea if we want it to work.

    Pat Morris, I believe that was you that spoke up to Ignatieff at the meeting? Well done. We need more people like you to do that.

  9. Please BRING on the Election so we can get Rid of this dictator in Ontario and all his croonies.What a Sham on Rural Ontario.
    You have to go Dalton. Go retire with your nice fat pension and potential chairman of the wind turbine industry??? PS: Take George with you. He started all this.

  10. David McGuinty has acknowledged on CPAC interviews that he is a strong supporter of Industrial Wind Turbines. He said that he wants to see them “everywhere” — “like Denmark”. When I saw him speak on the matter I was shocked at his manner — he seemed to be in a rage that we stupid “commoners” just did not “get it”.

    In my opinion a vote for the federal liberals is a vote for even more wind and solar power being jammed down our throats.

    Make of it what you will…

  11. Where does Ignatieff stand?


    A Liberal government, he adds, would work with business and other levels of government “to design effective fiscal and tax incentives that encourage new renewable power projects.”

    Ignatieff criticises the ruling Conservatives for failing to provide new funding for its ecoEnergy for Renewable Power (ERP) programme, saying it “sends the wrong message” to investors. ERP provides a C$0.01/kWh production incentive for the first 10 years of a project’s life, but its budget is expected to run out this fall, more than a year ahead of schedule.

    CanWEA president Robert Hornung welcomes Ignatieff’s promise. “To compete and win investment and jobs in the rapidly growing global green energy sector, we need active government engagement and strong leadership,” he says.

    And there you have it.

  12. Ignatieff is all over the map on the Wind Turbine and Energy Issues…


    Here are some extracts from Michael Ignatieff’s big speech at Laval University today.

    The speech was billed as an unveiling of the Liberal party’s position on global warming and the environment.

    I’d offer an analysis, but it’s hard to analyze mush. You try to get a firm grasp on it and it just oozes away between your fingers.

    The Liberal position as described by Mr. Ignatieff is like that. It could mean anything. There are some semi-promises — for example, we’d get a cap-and-trade system in place of the carbon tax favoured by Stephane Dion –but no real specifics. Fort example, here are several criteria set out by the Liberal leader for the cap-and-trade system:
    • The Canadian system must be equitable across all regions of the country.

    • It must not penalize those who have already taken the lead.

    • It must cover all of Canada’s industries, with no exceptions.

    • It must also be compatible with an eventual cap-and-trade system in the United States. But that does not mean—and this is key—that we have to wait for Washington before we move forward.

    • It must harmonize with systems in place elsewhere in the world. This will allow for carbon pollution credits to be auctioned off, and their value set by market forces. It will also allow for the buying and selling of credits in an international market.

    But then he has the McGuinty family to help him with policy…

    Now let’s keep this one on track eh?

  13. Canada contributes 3% of the globes CO2 emissions
    The USA is the leader.
    This Country is being lead by the nose by media.

  14. I think China is now the overall leader. Obviously not on a per-capita basis. And growing quickly. India is following closely. Nothing we (or the US) do to our grids will change that by one iota.

  15. Yes China may very well be the leader now.
    The point is that the “carbon traders” compare us to the USA as if we should follow their lead. We are not significant polluters in the first place.
    We emit 30% carbon emissions than Germany.
    I’m just showing the media misinfo .

  16. Mr. Ignatieff, in the fall of 2009, delivered a speech on clean energy: http://www.liberal.ca/newsroom/speeches/speech-to-the-vancouver-board-of-trade/
    “Clean energy changes everything. Not getting into the game now is like taking a pass on the internet back in 1995, and investing in transistor radios.
    The jobs of tomorrow are being created elsewhere as we speak. Either we act now, or we spend the next decade wishing we had.”

    and …

    “Global investment in clean energy technologies was a hundred and fifty billion last year.
    Germany has created more than two-hundred-and-fifty thousand clean energy jobs. They’ve cornered sixteen percent of the global market.
    Denmark gets a fifth of its electricity from wind. In Spain, it’s thirteen percent.
    And Canada? Where do you think we stand?
    Just one percent of our power comes from renewables like wind and solar.”

    The man went to BC and lectured on wind and solar. I can’t believe he even knew that BC is 90% hydro – or that hydro is pretty clean itself.
    On emissions, people interested in the proportions Ernest and Wayne have been discussing might be interested in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbR0EPWgkEI&feature=player_embedded#at=312
    He starts on it around 5 minutes in, and at about 8 minutes in introducing a graphic.

    As Ontario figures out how to replace it’s remaining 4GW of coal capacity, China’s next 5 year plan, described as green in the little press it received here, planned 260GW of new coal capacity.
    5 years and 260GW.

    I’m gonna need to switch more lightbulbs!

  17. And what can we expect from the Federal Liberals? Is Darling David McGuinty just a rogue greener?

    Liberals believe that Canada does not have to choose between environmental sustainability and economic growth. Through investments in the environment and clean energy, Canada is able to create jobs and develop cutting edge industries that will export high-tech products to growing markets such as China and India.

    Canada was once a global leader in the fight against climate change and strove to improve environmental sustainability, but Stephen Harper has left our oceans vulnerable to oil spills, made zero progress on greenhouse gas emissions reductions, and blocked progress at international climate change summits.

    The Liberal Party has a comprehensive plan to create clean energy jobs. Liberals will make an historic investment in clean energy and energy efficiency, quadrupling Canada’s production of renewable energy, and creating a cap and trade system with hard caps leading to absolute reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. This strategy, combined with a commitment to protect our air, oceans, waterways, forests and Arctic, will restore Canada’s place as an environmental leader.

    Oh! Guess not! I guess that David McGuinty is spouting the party line. I guess Dalton McGuinty is just a sock-puppet for the Federal Liberals and his oh so wild and crazy brother who would lead us to a progressive promised land…

    Oh yea! More of the same!

    Vote ABL, ABG and ABNDP!

    Rip up your vote, piddle on it and stuff it in the ballot box. It’s not like we will do any worse with no government if we have to be “greened” some more!

  18. From Macleans Mag….

    Ignatieff gets personal

    In launching the Liberals’ new family care policy, Iggy shows his human side
    by John Geddes on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:00am – 17 Comments


    Close observers of federal politics are taking note. Pollster Nik Nanos detects a shift away from the big-picture economic and environmental themes that dominated the Liberal message under Paul Martin and then Stéphane Dion. Nanos sees Ignatieff crafting policy with “closer proximity” to the day-to-day anxieties of middle-class families. “When the home care policy was rolled out,” Nanos says, “I saw it as a signal from the Liberals that they’re not ceding the family to the Conservatives as a key political battleground.”

    Um geeee! Did this guy read the Liberals Policy page?

    Imma gonna die laughing! Please — no more!

    It doesn’t matter what people think the Liberals might do! It matters what the Liberals are planning to do — and what they will do!

    And now Little Brother of Big David McGuinty has shown up big brother by writing legislation which cannot be challenged or undone and grants powers to the Premier, through the minister, to enact changes at will!

    A Federal Liberal liberal government would surely seek to outdo their bumbling little brothers.

  19. ” Minister Wants Green Energy Laws”
    The Kingston-Whig Standard, by Jennifer Pritchett June 25,2008.

    George Smitherman was apointed to his new position as Minister of Energy and Infrastructure on the Friday before the opening of the World Wind Energy Conference held at St.Lawrence College,Kingston,ON June 24-26,2008.

    So George Smitherman was appointed to his new job June 20,2008.


    It’s interesting to follow the dates of when events occur.

  20. Barbara:

    This calls for a database and a timeline.

    One of events another set of the people involved. Perhaps even people tracking software and interconnect software.

    Maybe I’ll pull out some of my old research in networks and interconnects among people and decision making. It would seem to apply here.

    But would it tell us anything we don’t already know?…or would it just confirm ou
    tr darkest fears that we are being manipulated, robbed and gulled by a relatively small group of people and their “useful idiot” followers? Then again, maybe the useful idiots are near the top… but for whom do they puppet? Does the puppet carol for thee?

  21. Typos typos typos…

    This calls for a database and a timeline.

    One of events, another set of data for the people involved. Perhaps even “people tracking” software and “relational interconnect” software.

    Maybe I’ll pull out some of my old research in “networks and interconnects among people” and decision making analysis. It would seem to apply here.

    But would it tell us anything we don’t already know?…or would it just confirm our darkest fears that we are being manipulated, robbed and gulled by a relatively small group of people and their “useful idiot” followers? Then again, maybe the useful idiots are near the top… but for whom do they puppet? Does the puppet carol for thee.

    My Apologies.

  22. David,

    We all need to know just how the Ontario Green Energy Act came into being. So following events makes it easier to understand what took place.

    It’s difficult to deal with issues unless the causes can be identified.

  23. Barbara:

    Yes it needs to be done.

    It is probable that it will show what we are already certain of as a matter of belief. My only frustration is with the time and money. wasted…


    Task Force members include:

    Gerald Butts, Pres. & CEO, WWF-Canada
    Pat. Koval, Sr.Partner ,Tory,LLP
    Julia Langer, Ex. Dir. ,Toronto Atmospheric Fund
    Bruce Lourie, Pres. ,Ivey Foundation
    Peter Love, Love Energy Consultants
    Rick Smith, Ex. Dir., Environmenatal Defence Canada
    Chris Winter, Ex. Dir., Conservation Council Of Ontario

  25. David,

    We know but lots of Ontarians don’t have this information.

  26. Barbara:

    Are you consolidating this data? Is it just appearing here in dribs and drabs? (nothing wrong with that).

    If you were at least collecting the information in a word processor that would be good.

    A spread sheet would be better and a database would be best.

    This information is useful as you present it — if we publicize those people.

    Collected as a work Like Donna Lafromboise did with the errors in the IPCC report — or the automated report done by Hilary Ostrov and her Australian collaborator it would be priceless and devastating.


    Go to “More” to see the IPCC report card.

  27. http://wwf.ca/newsroom/?1387
    June 25,2008 _ WWF Canada Appoints Gerald Butts new CEO
    “We are delighted that Gerald will be joining us,said Particia Koval, chairman of the Board of Directors, WWF_Canada


    Professional Involvement:
    Patricia A. Koval,Partner, Professional Involvement includes,Chairman of Board of Directors WWF-Canada and also a member of Greening Greater Toronto Task Force.


    Pat Koval, Sr.Partner,Tory LLP

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