Since when are engineers qualified to talk about health impacts?

by Denis Langlois, Owen Sound Sun Times
Green Energy Act opponent Lorrie Gillis says the McGuinty government’s latest assurances that there are no direct health effects from wind turbines is just another slap in the face for people who have been made sick by industrial wind farms.   “They’re basically being revictimized again,” the Flesherton-area resident said Saturday in an interview. Read article

17 thoughts on “Since when are engineers qualified to talk about health impacts?

  1. I have an answer… Ask me please!! willya!?

    OK, OK here it is…

    Ever since the provinces Doctors and Politicians took over the function of the Engineers?

    Am I right?Do I get a Christmas Cookie?

    • Sad day for engineers when their knowledge is useless. Supposed to be working together for the benefit of human kind.

  2. Appears from the news article that this is just another “paper review” and any information that is contrary to a pre-determined outcome is ignored. No victims interviewed?
    Read a bunch of “papers” and write a report. This is high school stuff.

  3. Interesting…article says that 550 m is outside of the range that people can hear. In a recent public meeting hosted by Algonquin, we were told by one of the technicians that there would be no place on Amherst Island that the turbines couldn’t be heard. I’m 550 m from turbines, 3 of them, if the project goes through. We will have to ferry to the mainland to get away from the noise!

  4. The review is just that. Those engineers read some papers and commented on them. They are to lazy and incompetent to go out and measure the sound energy at the homes of individuals who are complaining about the problems. They have take the same lazy, incompetent approach taken by Dr. King, our “Medical” Officer of health and her “literature” review. She was so lazy she never even talked to an individual person that claimed to be sick. All this proves is that they can read a book. Does not prove they know anything about the health impact of wind turbines. If we never examined a cancer patient in Ontario, we would have no cancer in Ontario. Lets examine the people who are expressing the health issues. Lets examine the sound energy hitting their homes be it audible or inaudible. Then we wil have an actual report dealing with actual problems not some childish “I checked the literature and found everything ok. Now pay me my consultants fee.”

  5. Brian Howe of HGC is a long standing member of wind lobby group CanWEA, has worked for years for wind developers and was awarded the low frequency RFP by the Ontario Ministry of Environment. Tight little group huh?
    I mean seriously, how do they keep getting away with this crap?
    I suppose he’s a real hero in the industry for forfeiting his professionalism, his oath to protect the public and his loss of morals, if he ever had any….

    These people have no conscience, none at all.

  6. It is astonishing to many that engineer computer modeling is permission to allow turbines, gravel pit crushers and quarries that go 200 feet below a water table into our communities. I am not a computer byte. I am flesh and blood and I feel. No computer model will ever substitute for what a human being feels. The research chair appointed by the govt. seems keen to revamp computer modeling for turbines. It took them 2 years to get around to this and a health survey and it will take another 2 or 3 years to put out whatever another (photovoltaic) engineer comes up with for a report. Where will we be by then if we sit like good boys and girls waiting for this report?

  7. Sick Turbines, I don’t believe an engineer’s information is useless at all. There are some wonderful engineers who are trying to bring truth to this battle.
    But there are too many similar to the likes of as HGC, who seem to be working just as hard to suppress and cover up problems, smoothing the way for the destruction of habitat for all of us. Hey it’s a living right? Many are saying, not at my expense buddy.

  8. Engineers and scientists can engage in endless arguments for many reasons as to what they think is the correct information.
    However, the courts are no longer allowed to decide who is correct in arguments among experts. This is the way it should be because judges are not engineering and/or scientific experts.
    Tribunals and judges can still hear these arguments and call expert witnesses but they can’t make a decision. So the courts can listen and just say any subject needs further study.
    The wind developers know this and so do the lawyers. Official transcripts are made of these proceedings.

  9. I sent an e-mail similar to http://ontario-wind-resistance.org/2011/12/18/bruce-mcpherson-infrasound-and-low-frequency-noise-study/#comment-48202 to the Bruce McPherson ILFN Study’s authors and Stephen Ambrose phoned me back and we had a lovely conversation.
    I complimented him on his open-mindedness to measure and report what others may be missing. I am an engineer, and I agree, too many technical people who have been studying this issue for years seem to hide behind sound measurements that use A or G weightings even though there is no justification to use these weightings.
    Double-blind tests with low frequencies applied to volunteers are needed to understand whether and what specific frequencies and strengths cause what symptoms so there can be some science behind meaningful set-back or design rules.

    • The objective of the present government is to exclude humans from any “noise” studies. The whole scheme will fall apart if people are consulted in anyway. They will not admit there are IWT victims. This is about politics and money and not about “noise” science.
      Investments in renewable energy must be protected at any cost.

    • From Sick Building Syndrome, NASA, submarine experiments etc., we know that ILFN negatively affects human health. When it comes to wind turbine sound, which is UNIQUE, wouldn’t we need to subject the guinea pigs to wind turbine sound emissions, not just ILFN of a general nature, in order to come out with relevant conclusions?

      More importantly though, isn’t it extremely unethical to do this type of experimentation, regardless of whether the human guinea pigs are “volunteers”? When it comes to prescription drugs, they only get to test on humans when they’ve demonstrated a certain level of safety. And if at some point in the trials it’s determined that the dose is having an adverse effect, experimentation is terminated until..? In the case of wind turbines, from the WindVoice survey which collected 135 reports of AHE in Ontario, and from the thousands of other anecdotal accounts globally, we know there is a problem at distances more and less than 2km. There is no need to do anymore “experimentation”. It is settled: wind turbines cause adverse reactions in many people who reside less than 2km away. Therefore, shut all the wind turbines down that are located <2 km from a home. IMO, it's reckless, unethical, negligent, and disrespectful not to, at this point.

      Or, they can simply apply the 3 or 5 decibel penalty for sound that is cyclic in nature, and shut them down for that reason.

      • The IWT “noise” situatuation has entered the legal realm. There are other opposing viewpoints which tribunals and courts are being asked to make decisions on which side is corrected when it comes to IWT “noise” effects on humans. Since this is new unsettled “noise” science there won’t be a legal decision as to which side is right or wrong as there is not enough scientific information/studies upon which the legal system can make a determination.
        Look how long it took for DNA to be admitted in court cases. Tribunals and courts move very slowly on new scientifc issues.
        If there was no legal opposition then government entities if they wanted could shut the IWTs down but this isn’t going to happen in Ontario at the present time as the government is pushing the IWTs onto rural Ontarians and ignoring any evidence that dosen’t suit their plans.
        But if tribunals and courts say they can’t make IWT “noise” decisions then the government can’t prove they are correct and then use this against the people. So the government’s push to use tribunal/court decisions against the people is shut down.
        Right now the government is trying to bluff people into thinking they have been proven right on IWT “noise” issues.

    • Great article!

      Best line:
      ‘The release states that the ministry will seek such a measurement procedure.’

      File under: M.O.E. to play ‘Hide and Seek’.

  10. Simple! The mayor is the son of John Gerretson who was involved in putting the Ontario Green Energy Act into law. Known at least since the last week of June,2008.
    Good products and ideas do not need government subsidies to succeed. The public always desires good products and ideas. Poor products and ideas will not succeed even if subsidised.

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