Liberals support PC energy white paper

By Press Release North Bay Nugget
Friday’s announcement from the Energy Minister to create a Clean Energy Institute simply amounts to an admission Ontario will continue to create expensive surplus power, Nipissing MPP Vic Fedeli said today.

The Minister highlighted the need to look for methods of storage for that surplus electricity. The Auditor General’s most recent report shows Ontario lost $1.8 billion selling our surplus power to Quebec and the United States over the past six years.

“Our solution, as announced in our PC Energy White Paper, is to look to storage for the surplus wind power that we’re sadly locked into paying for over the next 20 years thanks to this government’s FIT contracts,” said Fedeli.

“While we appreciate the Minister finally talking about storage, it’s also an admission the government plans to continue to develop surplus wind power, which will increase Ontario’s hydro rates,” added Fedeli. Read article

22 thoughts on “Liberals support PC energy white paper

  1. OK…so we’re going to pay the ridiculous FIT rates…then pay (who knows how much) to create storage and a mechanism to get it to work properly. I’m thinking it would cost less to give the stuff away. The PCs missed the point…stop building generation we don’t need!!

    So…when the power is stored…and we continue to generate electricity we don’t need…we’ll just have full storage…and the excess beyond the storage will go…where?

    And the resources, space and energy required to build all this stuff…zero emissions…right? LOL!!

    My cat can figure this out…

  2. Stupid is as stupid does. It is now our brilliant government that is going to find the solution to storage of excess wind power. It has been tried building reservoirs, and numerous other methods are under experimentation and research — None that are commercially available. Sounds like another “make work project” for some university with a chair all earning $millions. Fedeli, give yourself a shake! General Russel L. Honore said it best, “stuck on stupid”.

    Talk about going from bad to worse!

    If this government continues to spend itself into a debt hole, we won’t need all that electricity, produced or stored. Someone had better get back to some common sense fundamentals.

  3. To date, the people at QP fail to understand that a great many rural Ontarians kown who is behind this renewable energy fiasco,where the money is coming from and the connections among those involved in this scam.
    There is at least one IWT project in Chatham-Kent, in my opinion, that should already be under law enforcement scrutiny.There is also federal money involved in this project.

    • Why am I not surprised by this?
      I drove past the group near Thamesville on Sunday. The temperature was about 28 with not a breath of wind. Stupid useless things.

  4. Gunther Portfolio, Dec.24,2007
    http://guntherportfolio.com/?s=Pod+generating+Group
    “Flawed EMCORE concentrators Photo Voltaic System deal with the Pod Generating Group?”
    “The Pod Generating Group seems to be more about Canadian political connections bolsterd by promises of local CPV manufacturing (Manufacturing Plant Coming to Sault Ste. Marie) where the exchange rate favors manufacturing across the border in Michigan than proper application of exixting photovoltaic technologies.”
    ——————————————————————————————————————–
    Facts About The Solar Energy, Jan.8,2010
    “Pod set to construct massive solar energy farm in the Sault”
    http://factsaboutthesolarenergy.info/pod-set-to-construct-massive-solar-energy-farm-in-the-sault

    More than one deal was done involving this project.

  5. Presenting this “white paper” on renewable energy storage will provide the NDP with more reasons to prop up the present government. NDP=Renewable Energy
    Just waste more money on storage issues and IWTs & solar will work.

    • Politics is a ‘blood sport’ –
      what’s worse –
      – the evidence shows us – jobs are leaving Ontario.
      The economy is slowly collapsing.

      ‘]excerpt] Having the second-highest energy prices in North America continues taking its toll in Ontario.

      Two weeks ago, General Motors announced it was moving production of the Equinox and Impala from Oshawa to the United States, impacting 2,000 Ontario jobs. High energy costs were cited as one of the factors for the decision by G.M. In all, Ontario lost 31,000 full-time jobs last month and the provincial unemployment rate has been above the national average for 65 consecutive months.

      Fedeli reiterated the need to cancel job-killing FIT subsidies and the 9,000 more megawatts of wind power that are being planned right now.

      “Expensive wind power has simply replaced affordable hydro on Ontario’s power grid – the cleanest, most reliable source of electricity there is,” said Fedeli.’

    • Roger Pielke Sr., http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com
      NEW PAPER ON WIND TURBINES in the European Physical Society
      C.le Pair,F.Udo and K.de Groot,2012:-turbines as yet-unsuitable as electricity producers. Europhyscinews DOI:10./051/epn/2012204
      Read the abstract here. This is the kind of information the PCs should be paying attention to and not pie-in-the-sky storage nonsense.

  6. Storage sounds so nice. So again there is no need to ask how or how much?
    New hydroelectric reservoirs would be the cheapest but Ontario does not have any more significant amount to develop.
    The lead acid battery (same as a car battery, or golf cart etc.) is the next most efficient option. Some rough numbers:
    To store 1 KWh, 50 pounds of battery about $100.
    To store the output of 1 turbine (2MW) for one hour, 100,000 pounds of batteries, $200,000.
    Start multiplying this by thousands of turbines. And how long do they need to store it for? Spring to summer? Multiply by thousands of hours again.
    The cost would likely double when battery charging equipment and discharging equipment (inverters to convert DC, direct current batteries to AC for the grid)
    It looks like the idea is well into the $trillions

    • But the vast majority of the public never costs out these kinds of ideas .In the meantime support is continued or offered for IWTs and solar.
      Have the scam artists gotten to the PCs is now an issue?

      • It could be that the PCs have figured out that they’ll never get elected catering to the pissed off rural vote.

        The urban areas are continually expanding and gaining voters and that likely translates into many more years of Liberal minority governments … unless Tim Hudak & Co. do something to tip the balance.

        Kissing a bit of green ass might be the new strategy. Sad but probably true.

      • … not that there’s anything wrong with kissing a bit of green butt.

        As stated below by myview1872, the White Paper does contain a number of reasonable and sensible ideas … lots of good grist for the mill.

        Whether the urbanites can put down the lattes long enough to actually read what the PCs are saying, remains to be seen. I suspect not.

  7. Hey Vic, just had PC though, I got a bunch of empty pails tucked away in my garage. We can fill those with electricity and I’ll just store them in my shed until the light go out.

    • The White Paper and Mr Fedeli both appear to have been misquoted on the issue of storage. This is all the document had to say about storage:

      “Ontario’s current electricity surplus has led to a number of expensive short term remedies to keep the system stable, from dumping this power at a loss in neighboring states and provinces to spilling water at our hydroelectric facilities. We are even temporarily shutting down nuclear power units.

      Instead of paying neighbours like New York and Quebec to take our surplus power, we can use this situation to explore a new, made-in-Ontario technology. One option is to make green hydrogen, which acts as a way to store energy for another use, as a battery does. Unlike batteries, however, hydrogen can be through a pipeline like natural gas or stored as a liquid and transported in a tanker truck. Creating hydrogen from our oversupply of wind power could help alleviate strains on the transmission system, which is bound by contract to accept all power created from wind and solar farms, whether it’s needed or not.”

      I just want to point out that we all need to really read the information before jumping to conclusions.

      • Take a few minutes and research “hydrogen”. It’s not the type of gas you’d want to be messing with. It’s extremely volatile and dangerous. At one time it was being looked as an alternative to gasoline to fuel vehicles but was rejected because of its volatility. I’d rather live close to a nuclear facility than one that generates hydrogen.

  8. Although we in rural Ontario are taking the hits from the Liberals, we are not enough votes/riding’s to elect ANY government. The PC’s know this and must concentrate on getting the votes in T.O/Ottawa, without losing us. We know that what is said and what is done before and after an election are two different things. In my opinion the Liberals are fools to endorse anything that the PC’s come up with, Hudac just gained some creds in the big city. City’s are waking up to all of the scandal and corruption the present government is involved with. All party’s say and do different things. If elected, the PC’s WILL disappoint rural folks on some things….they will also take a hit from the city people for LYING about some things. That is the nature of politics. Believing in something or someone we want with out questioning the validity and deliver-ability of a political promise is something that all of us do. That is why we end up pissed off, fed up and protesting. If the PC’s can make the city’s believe, and get votes , then that is what they will do. It does not mean that the white paper is carved in stone. Our job is to make very clear, that we will make their lives a living hell if they break promises to US.

  9. In Michigan, wind developers propose to store surplus energy in the Ludington Pumped Storage Plant, which will require $800 million in upgrades. The facility caused considerable fish mortality in the past as it drew water from Lake Michigan. Utility-owners paid millions in a court settlement. Now, a 2.5 mile seasonal net helps prevent fish mortality.
    1. http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2011/02/ludington_area_officials_thril.html
    2. http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2011/02/ludington_pumped_storage_plant.html
    3. http://www.glft.org/site/history.shtml

    I wonder what kind of storage schemes are being conceived for Ontario. Can/will infrastructure of power plants scheduled for closing be refurbished for such purposes?

    • My information is that at present this plant uses cheaper nuclear power during the night to pump the water out of the lake. Now the plan is to use IWTs to pump the lake water. So it is storage power which dosen’t last long under heavy demand. Not enough storage area. The water is pumped up 372 feet above the lake level.
      The project renovation jobs only last a short time with no added full time jobs.
      Western Michigan is quite a conserative area so even these people are willing to be taken in by IWT scams of promised renewable energy storage for a few dollars.
      Does Ontario have any bluffs high enough above the any of the lakes to do a project like this anyway?

  10. ‘Criminal Negligence’ is defined as something like ‘continuing to initiate actions that the initiator knows are harmful to innocent folk’. My layman’s interpretation but I think a valid one?
    McGuinty with his Green Energy Act and the Ontario wind energy industry continue to knowingly harm rural Ontarians with every project that is approved.
    Why on earth should those same innocent victims honour contracts made by crooks?
    The PC should be planning on killing the Ontario renewable energy scam outright, cancelling all existing and proposed contracts, and then refuse to allow any appeals from the proponents in any Canadian court of law.
    Even better they should be planning on suing those same proponents to recover the tax dollars already wasted on this unaffordable and entirely useless alleged energy supply!

  11. Andrew just took the words out of my mouth, to add to his wisdom the pcs could shut it down,
    contracts have been given under thier devilish veils. What its not like the gov. Dont do this all the time to us. ( heres your hydro clean energy benefit,…oops we need that back, heres your smart meter..good job on saving energy…. But now we have to raise the price for the third time this yr….)

    You think I care if one of my neighbors will be out some mola for thier FIT contract. Sorry not so much, I wont be able to afford the rate if its expected to climb as much as they say ( over 42%) not including the almighty grid updates and now the invisible price hidden for storage.??

    Let the solar owners hook up thier own homes and farms and benefit purely from their own machines. Im amazed at the amount of people that drive by, and think that already. Its a joke to have a huge solar panel beside yor house or barn and when the lights go out, you have to go run your gas powered generator for hours until it comes back on.

    Something wrong here wouldnt you say??

    What are we afraid of offending a handful of people in ontario?

    or should we maybe be a tad bit more worried about the horrible outcome if
    we let this liberal ride continue?
    !

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