MOE demands wind victim neurologist, psychiatrist, psychologist notes

Turbine distressI’ll take it from here and continue on from the last post “Ontario government lawyers join the SLAPP suit game

You may wonder why this motion by the Ministry of Environment  (demanding costs) was thrown at us in Adelaide in the first place. The  MOE was demanding that I disclose the following information about the one witness on my list who has had the horrid experience of living with wind turbines.

medical records sept 24_Fotor

human-rights-abuseAsk yourself, would you freely give this information, make it PUBLIC, for the sole benefit of your own government, and a foreign corporation like NextEra, to try and tell you , “it’s all in your head”? Notice that they really want specialist documents and notes from your… shrink. Like really, go to hell.

But that’s not it. You better hand all of this over too:

lawsuits homes sept 24_Fotor

Feeling a little exposed? Well, if you don’t do it, a) we’ll hit the appellant with costs, and b) prohibit you from testifying!

Hmm. But this is our government, don’t they have a smidgen of a conscience? Don’t they… care about our rights to privacy? Just a little??

prohibited from testifying_Fotor

This is our government lawyers in action, people.

Now, I’m going to ask you:
If YOU were served with this motion, would you ‘obey’, ‘comply’, ‘bow down’ to these demands and threats?

75 thoughts on “MOE demands wind victim neurologist, psychiatrist, psychologist notes

    • Could a skilled lawyer fight the constitutionality of such demands?

      Probably not…

      I have access to a lot of skilled people — so I reviewed this document with a person who does work in the exams of people who make WSIB and OHSA claims… That person does some of the exams that can often prove or disprove the presence of injury in various forms and manifestations. They are usually viewed as an impartial party — they see everything from people with valid claims denied to the malingerers — so they see it all.

      They said that what is being asked is par for the course in proving a medical claim — nothing to see — move along.

      This is why I have always felt that the economic and environmental arguments are far easier.

      • Hey WillR,
        These are two separate issues.
        And, I believe you are wrong – in making the comparisons.
        Let’s not kid ourselves.

      • This is not a valid comparison. Claiming benefits requires you to provide (medical) evidence of a specific injury. That is reasonable.
        What is not fair to examine, and make public *irrelevant* health records. I surely hope this argument would be thrown out of (real) court…

      • In this case a complainant in the court systems hopes someone who has a legitimate license from the government will be prevented from carrying out an activity they believe will be harmful to themselves.

        Should this be allowed without some form of proof? Should the halt of the project be forced because you or I say it is harmful or only if one of use can prove it is harmful..

        We don’t want medical surveys — nor do want to provide direct proof. Is this the position everyone takes? Should a court will go with that position?….

        I am not arguing whether the complain of harm is valid. I am questioning what should be considered proof — and what should we have to provide.

        Someone here has an immediate, obvious and clear answer — this I know. Please share this answer.

      • By now, don’t you understand that some of us aren’t picking and choosing “arguments” to have — and especially not based on how easy they are; simply we are trying to bring awareness and understanding to the torturous living environments created caused by industrial wind energy facilities, hoping we may prevent some other people from being harmed.

        The way you portray it, is as if this is a game.
        “What is there to gain?”

        News flash(?): We’ve already LOST!

        Maybe you act like this because it’s not happening IN YOUR BACKYARD.

        Having said all that we appreciate your hard work, balancing the other side of this equation – wind turbines provide NO benefits.

        But to us with homes 390 metres away from wind turbines – that’s obviously intuitive since we know wind turbines produce when we don’t need them – at NIGHT when we’re trying to SLEEP!

      • “Health Effects is where it’s at!”
        “Two thumbs way up!”

        “I’m with Health Effects!”

        Laugh Out Loud!

      • No one is saying that health effects are not the most important but this a more difficult route to take than going after environmental, economic and corruption issues.
        Going after health issues only forces you to play the government’s game and this was set up this way to begin with.
        But going after corruption is not the governments game and they don’t want to play the corruption games with the people.

  1. Hey M,O,E ers!
    Are you not servants?
    Are you not looking after our best interest in us living near proven health affects reported from live witnesses? Worldwide?
    If majority of us do not want them which our right ,not yours as to remind you as Egotistic servants to comply
    Maybe all of our public servants need to see a shrink to remind them they work for us and keep there EGO’s in check.
    Maybe they are afraid of the fraud being revealed finally and we can all real eyes there acting in fraud.

  2. The MOE does NOT protect us!! Apparently that is NOT their mandate. I confronted an MOE lawyer in the washroom at an ERT in Haldimand and I was told they are not there to protect us but to ensure the government mandate is put through.
    It is criminal what those lawyers put those victims through last week in Brussels.The moments however that I somewhat enjoyed was the apparent frustration of the Wind lawyer with Richard James the Acoustical Consultant. James was fantastic and appeared to really get to the lawyer.

  3. Enough bullying and psycho manipulation MOE. Pull-leez, somebody bitch slap these bastards. These people are crazy. Stop them before they hurt more people. It is obvious that not one of them is fit to hold the position they do. They are ruthless criminals. They need to stop, be held accountable, and pay for their negligence, their lawyers too.

    Go for the jugular. Bring wind CEO’s and the Premiere to the stan in a real court.

    It would be interesting to investigate “plan b” of people like Mike Crawley and Dalton McGuinty. Not “what if” but “what happens” when their criminal bullshit catches up with them? What plan do they have in place? What assets, properties and off shore accounts do these people have at their disposal to run and hide to? Maybe Alquaida can put them up in Bin Laden’s old crib.
    Assets should be seized; accounts frozen and these guys should be arrested before they get away.

    Perhaps it is not wise to under estimate a “rural redneck” . There are many who are intelligent, and have a high standard of ethics, and balls.

    The tribunal process is nothing but a tool, used as a weapon by the government. People are being hurt. People are dying from exposure to low frequencies produced by industrial wind turbines while a kangaroo court process known as an environmental tribunal pushes full steam ahead. Their main objective is to buy time (while more turbines are erected) and to deplete resources of the opposition.

    Do we let this continue? We are experiencing an assault on many levels.

    • Let’s say for arguments sake that your very eloquent rant is right on all points… (And let’s say that perhaps I even agree — not admitting this — but for arguments sake let’s say it’s so…)

      What’s the plan?

      This link may not seem relevant — but read the abstract very carefully…
      http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1002/ejsp.1983?locale=en

      Then answer some questions — here — or just mumble to your self.

      Who were the activists?
      Do they now hold government positions?
      Who is now being positioned as “The activists”.

      Which position on Green Energy has the support of the people of Ontario?
      Despite the facts that Green Energy is expensive, un-needed and job killing as well as ineffective against CO2 increases it is widely supported. Why?

      Do the people of Ontario believe that the environment is in trouble and that we have to “Do something!”.

      Do they know and can they articulate these “Environmental Problems”.

      Who is articulating the solutions.

      Are the solutions science based, with provable results — against an established benchmark.

      How did people get educated that Green Energy is effective and cost effective — when the opposite is true and provable?

      While you are coming up with a plan to effect change in the current lunatic policies of government — ponder these simple questions.

      I look forward to some answers.

    • Oh yeah…

      If you relate your answers to the original article — does it explain the fervor of the attacks on people opposed to this lunatic GEA and the IWT and Solar panel approvals.

      …and of course the need to prove the lack of credibility of those opposed to the lunatic plans of the enviro-weirdos who now claim to be the establishment…

      Just askin’…

    • I think that the supposition prior to the decision to invade rural Ontario with IWT’s was based on statistical data re: academic/post secondary accomplishments of rural residents/landowners. They were not expecting the brilliant leaders of the opposition to demonstrate this level of tenacity. These leaders will not be forgotten in the days to come.

  4. ‘[excerpt] Now, I’m going to ask you:
    If YOU were served with this motion, would you ‘obey’, ‘comply’, ‘bow down’ to these demands and threats?’

    The world is watching –
    – so the short answer is –
    ‘NO’

    Welcome to Climate Change Law – in Ontario.

  5. This website is running so slow thstit is not of much use now.
    It may be overloaded as there are photos that won’tupload/download.
    Will still post at mothers Against Wind Turbines.
    Witnesses are needed that don’t have prior medical records or people who have very few prior medical records.
    this is a legal ‘game” being played here.
    No one likes this but you have to deal with reality.

  6. Also any corruption associated with the wind scam is provable.
    Corruption won’t be dealt with at ERTs but in regular courts.

    • I believe my 12 year old son may fall into this category. Everything is easily accessible, Dr.s records, school records, etc. All records will back up his specialists recommendations to not have noisy turbines in his environment, as it would cause him great harm. I have the letter from the specialist stating this as well. We live in a quiet rural environment, and the school has a quiet room for him to go do his work in, when the background noise gets too loud and he can’t concentrate or function well. Even Julian Falconer is aware of my situation, and said the case sounds very promising.

  7. Mike crawley does NOT run GDF Suez. he just works there as president of the Canadian subsidiary of this company.

  8. When medical issues/records get into an ERt or a court they become legal “games” and NOT medical games.
    If a physician recommends that an IWT victim be evaluated by a psychiarist or a psychologist the victims “goose Is cooked” when they get to the tribunal or a court.
    If the victim refuses to be evaluated by a psycharist or psychologist then a lot of dammage has already been done to the victim as this will be recorded in the victim’s medical records.
    Victims become easy prey to being accused of having mental issues.

  9. Why should the medical records be required at all?

    Here is an idea: The two parties find a *mutually agreed* medical professional. The professional evaluates the subject and writes a report containing *only the information needed for a legal determination*. As a template, I’m suggesting we follow the Ontario “workplace accommodations for persons with disabilities” act. This document applies to all employers (over a certain size) in Ontario.

    I agree that the court (or ERT) requires a medical *opinion*, but they DO NOT need the “source” documents, the medical records. Only the person giving opinion should see those, and the medical records should stay private.

    This should be challenged! Are any of our Lawyers or health advocates able to take this on?

  10. FYI – Just wondering if anyone other than Barbara is having issues with the OWR site? I’ve noticed her directing people to Mothers.against Turbines and claiming the sites not working properly for her a few times. I use Ontario wind Resistance and Wind Concerns Ontario as my “go to sites” when wanting to keep up with what’s happening in Ontario. I have a web page geared for my area and quite frankly….I think I would be a bit annoyed it someone kept posting that my site was slow and NOT OF MUCH USE. and then telling people to go else where??!! Beyond RUDE!! OWR you do a great job here, and considering all that you have going on in your personal life, your dedication is commendable in continuing to keep people engaged. oh and BTW….I have NOT been having any problems viewing your web pages. So maybe it’s on Barbara’s end…she posts a lot of links so maybe she’s picked up a virus herself. I for one don’t think your site is “not of much use” anymore. You go girl!

  11. Am not having any problems accessing anyother websites.
    this website is one of the most important websites in North America for IWT issues. Was merley suggesting that another website be used by people in an emergency so the work can go on uninterrupted.

  12. Links must be provided so thar readers know the source of the information being presented is from valid and reliable sources.
    Otherwise only a converstion is being presented.

  13. Where do they get off asking for 10 yrs of
    Personal data?

    These foreign idiots dont even have data to measure sound for a day!

    I’d like to see their track record of crap for the last decade in all thier projects, gag orders lifted first of course!!!!

    Bunch of blood sucking useless ticks, just here for the ride!

  14. Yes, we have to stop this. It is just absurd. The time is right to bring on a a “noise protest”. Play the sound wherever weasels are required to appear in public. Since Wynne is hiding under a rock now, the only place to protest is the ERT itself. The government has no obligation to respond in any other way than this farce. Might as well make them “annoyed” just like those in the turbine fields.

    Oh yeah, I was out recording @ Selkirk ON last night (strong winds came though!). In addition to the regular noise, one turbine was squeaking like crazy.

  15. If medical recrords indicate that a person has mental issues this makes it possible for legal hearings to disregard or even dis-allow a person’s testimony.
    There are valid reasons for this whether we like it or not.

    • Just because someone may have pre-existing mental health issues does not mean their health claim is invalid. Suppose a person has an illness, but it is under control with medication. That is no different than a diabetic on insulin. They are stabilized by their treatment. A psychiatrist should evaluate their mental health, not the ERT or anyone else.

      • EXACTLY. Richard is absolutely correct. Many people have underlying physical and mental illnesses that are not troublesome, but exist, usually managed with medication or by other means. these conditions may very well be why the individual is living in the country. Wind turbines, and the noise, vibration etc can magnify the symptoms of these illnesses. These people need to be cared for, not discarded with a, “oh well, they were already disable, who cares” attitude. They are some of the most vulnerable in our society. And they need to be defended, not ignored and disrespected by a wind developer and our government.

      • Once you get into a legal setting/situation it then becomes a question of whether or not a witness can be believed.
        If any doubt can be cast on a person’s testimony then this will be done.
        Mental issues is one place where doubt can be cast. This goes way back in the law so is nothing new.

      • A person with mental health issues is no less believable than one without mental health issues. I would never ever ever except this sort of analysis in court. There is a lot of misunderstanding out there on mental health, along with continued stigma, and the wind industry is capitalizing off of that. People have to become educated on mental health issues and start demanding that their HEALTH issues are not rejected in testimony.

    • “Legal hearings regarding mental issues”. I would think most of us have a mental issue when you real eyes you drink city water laced with forced medicated dumb down fluoride made from industrial waste,i’m sure your brain is not functioning as it normally would plus all the GMO foods and other poisons in meat,cereals etc.not forgetting the chem trails falling form our skies which we have no idea what it may do to our bodies.
      And also Forced vaccinations how can anyone be so called normal with crap we have no idea whats all in this soup..
      Also the fact you name legal hearings and not lawful hearings are two different and no mention of blacks law,we think legal is so important but they belong to a society of the law society and they speak legalize which is not fair game
      .You cannot trust anything legal and I’m sure if your mentally capable of standing in this hearing is it will show,so cut the that BS right there with this legal crap
      Maybe they are creating scare porn to get their platform in place and we play their win win game.

      • I am hoping you will explain what GMO and Fluorides have to do with wind turbines — it’s beyond me….

        If all that you write is true — go poison the Wind Turbines for us and let’s have done with it — otherwise…

      • HY Willr
        Feeling a bit frustrated?
        Cannot handle how effective your government treats you?
        I consider all this to be factors of persistent torture on our bodies from this government.
        I have live amongst all of this crap and over 3 years near turbines.
        Just reading your comment shows you do not give a dam at how much destruction to our bodies including our minds all of this has.
        The point I am making across is about these lawyers that want to see our health records including MOE and MOE is suppose to keep our environment healthy,right?.
        They are NOT! in many fraudulent ways.
        This is my point and there are plenty of facts to proof it,if you care to think out of your caged bos
        Otherwise…

  16. IWT victims don’t fall for this medical trap. If necessary get a different doctor.

    This website is as much of a target as Ester is.

  17. Frau Dr. Merkel has the science eduction to understand energy issues but would rather be Chancellor than right.
    Obama dosen’t have much science education so he appoints eco-nuts to craft U.S. energy policy.
    Then the U.S. Congress has its share of eco-nuts so the outlook is not good.

  18. There are places in the world where fluoride ocurs naturally in the drinking water. it was observed that people living in those areas had very little tooth decay.Tests were and studies were made before flouride was added to water supplies in Canada to make sure this was a safe practice.

    • To Barbara and WillR – there’s a little more to the fluoride story than that… the naturally occurring fluoride is CALCIUM fluoride. The chemical they put in our water is ALUMINUM fluoride. Aluminum fluoride is a waste product of the aluminum industry. I have read that it was put in the water supply in Nazi concentration camps because it acts as a tranquilizer.
      Many people have serious concerns about chemicals in our water and it is hard to know who is right. We who fight the turbines should be well aware by now that you can’t trust the government or industry to tell us the truth.
      Part of the reason that we have so little success against the turbines is that many of us think that the turbines are the only issue. The turbines are the SYMPTOM that WE have noticed. Others have noticed the GMO symptom or the fluoride symptom or the education symptom or… or… or…
      We need to recognize that the underlying problem that causes all these symptoms is a corrupt and badly broken political/economic system that has been allowed to fester due to lack of interest on the part of the public. At this point, we are hampered by our divisions. GMO folk don’t care about turbines or fluoride, fluoride opponents don’t care about turbines and too many of us aren’t interested in GMOs or Fluoride because we think the real problem is IWTs.
      There are even people who think the real problem is the Liberals and NDP and that if we vote Conservative everything will be ok.
      Wow – talk about delusions. Doesn’t matter which party is in – we lose.

      • Hey Sylvan Bob,

        I hate being confused.
        you say,
        ‘We need to recognize that the underlying problem that causes all these symptoms is a corrupt and badly broken political/economic system that has been allowed to fester due to lack of interest on the part of the public.’

        What’s festering?

      • What’s festering?
        ‘a corrupt and badly broken political/economic system’ is festering.

        Or did you want a definition of the word?

        Fester – verb – 1.
        to form pus; generate purulent matter; suppurate.
        to putrefy or rot.

      • Bob:

        Maybe the best bet is to start a blog on the premise of:

        People United Against Absolutely Everything

        I think you will have a better response than you could ever imagine.

        I presume that members will run naked in the forest and make fire with sticks and be strict vegetarians living on skunk cabbage (delicious if cooked properly)…

        I wish you the best and look forward to the new blog. Not sure how you will post though…

      • People opposed to Gentically Modified Foods are opposed to the Golden Rice Project. The Golden Rice project has modified rice to include Beta Carotene and Vitamin A — which should prevent one of the vitamin deficiencies that is greatest baby and pregnant woman killer on the planet — and, yup, it’s free:

        http://www.goldenrice.org/index.php

        The shocking fact is that, far from reaching the envisaged Millenium Development Goals, more than 10 million children under the age of five are still dying every year. A high proportion of those children die victims of common diseases that could be prevented through a better nutrition. This number has been equated with a ‘Nutritional Holocaust’ . It is unfortunate that the world is not embracing more readily a number of approaches wih the potential to substantially reduce the number of deaths. It has been calculated that the life of 25 percent of those children could be spared by providing them with diets that included crops biofortified with provitamin A (beta-carotene) and zinc. Golden Rice is such a biofortified crop. Those involved in the project are hopeful that in a near future Golden Rice will be growing in farmers’ fields and helping to improve the diets of millions of people.

        Feel free to read all about it and wonder why people want to tie it to opposition to wind turbines. It’s Lunatic if you ask me.

      • Will – I don’t have time to educate idiots. Your comment on golden rice has as much credibility as NexTerror’s Chapman report.
        If you can’t pull your head out, at least try to unclench.
        Golden Rice is to Vitamin A deficiency as Turbines are to renewable energy.

      • This is the reason why other issues like GM foods should not be included in IWT issues. They don’t go together in the first place and we don’t have time to spare discussing other issues.

      • BTW — education is always welcome:
        http://www.alcoa.com/alumina_minerals/north_america/en/products/product3.asp

        Product Applications
        Aluminum fluoride is used by aluminum producers to lower the melting point of electrolytes in the smelting process and increase production efficiency.

        It is also used as a flux ingredient for the removal of magnesium in the refining of aluminum scrap. When magnesium-bearing aluminum alloys are melted, fluoride reacts with the magnesium and permits removal of this element. This enables remelters to produce aluminum alloys substantially free of magnesium.

        The ceramic industry uses aluminum fluoride for some body and glaze mixtures and in the production of specialty refractory products. Aluminum fluoride is used in the manufacture of aluminum silicates and in the glass industry as a filler.

        IOW — not a waste product — used by the industry…

        Education is always good. Welcome it — and learn more about Wind Turbines as we continue this journey.

  19. OWR is not working very well again today.Very slow!

    There are those who have learned to access the tax revenuses governments now collect for their own use and benefit.
    They know how to mannipulate the political system for their own interests which is the case with IWTs here in Ontario.
    But the general public dosen’t know this or dosen’t care as long as they stay away from the majority of the public this can be gotten away with.
    Nothing done about the C-K airport situation yet.Can’t get ERT transcripts released. These are just two examples of the corruption taking place in Ontario.

  20. Maybe it’s time to get a court order to obtain the ERT transcripts? Ministry employess can also get caught up in corruption charges if they fail to do what is required of them. Like provide documents and information the public has a right to obtain?

  21. Tillsonburg Tobacco Trader Calls Siemens Wind Turbine Blade Plant “A Racket”

    ‘[excerpt] …’Mr. Jones, who asked for his identity to be disguised, commented: “There just doesn’t seem to be the traffic in and out of the factory to justify that it’s a going concern. My office window looks out over the [Siemens] plant and something just doesn’t add up. Some of the other guys have noticed the same thing…”

  22. I have this feeling WillR is telling us we are full of sh-t and may be someone that he works for the government i do not know or care This government does not give a shhhit about us,period. IT is about the” MONEY”
    Reason you never get much further with this system that needs a good spring cleaning is we are using owned copyright names and that spells fraud.
    Get passed that you may shed your sheep clothes and be a man out of the pasture that your government keeps you boxed in.
    If I do not want fluoride in my water or have noises 24 7 from turbines I have that right to not have it. We do have free will and to live in peace.
    Yes it is that simple.

    • Maybe I just want people to see first what we are dealing with.

      Fighting imaginary foes is difficult.

      First we must understand our enemy as we understand ourselves.

      Before we understand our enemy we must understand ourselves.

      Otherwise we will fight a hundred battles and lose them all.

      Is this so difficult to understand?

      • i know who are the enemies and they are government,to much off it controlled by big money corporations that do not care about you voters.
        I for one left my corporate slave name and gave it back up to the rightful owners.
        Left their pyramid schemes and now a living man not in there stock yard as their inventory.
        I have my rights back and dignity and no more enemies,my flag is a white flag a flag of peace.

        They actually fear people like us because we truly know the game they invented and they do not want you to leave the game they own and control unless you know the secret of winning. The secret they do give out in hints but we are so dumb down to real eyes it

  23. Interesting! An eyewitness account of what’s going on. IWT blades are so large it’s difficult to hide them.
    Can’t be taken out in small boxes.

  24. The government makes the rules about IWT health issues but the can’t set the rules with fraud, corruption and economic issues.

  25. Why doesn’t someone walk in with a video camera and see what is actually going on in there. Probably a shell with few employees. That would make front page news and expose the Ontario Government as the liars that they are.

  26. FWIW:

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/04/attacks-on-science-canadian-municipalities-often-more-likely-to-listen-to-activists-than-scientific-facts/

    Last month, a meeting of all B.C.’s municipalities voted to outlaw genetically engineered (GE) food. From canola to soy to corn, ruled the politicians, not one ounce of lab-designed food should be allowed north of the 49th parallel, or west of the Rocky Mountains.

    The tack runs counter to the advice of Health Canada, which declares that “the overwhelming body of scientific evidence continues to support the safety of … genetically modified food.” It also goes against the advice of the World Health Organization and the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

    They’re everywhere…

    • It matters little to testify if the testimony at ERTs is not recorded.
      What good are the summaries anyway? It’s the witnessess’ testimony that needs to be recorded.
      The people running these ERTs know this and rural Ontarians are being had over and over at the ERTs.
      By the way who is the director who required all these 10 years of medical records anyway?

      • ‘[excerpt] The MOE was demanding……’

        The Climate Change lawyers @ the MOE – are desperate,
        and now it appears they will threw anything out there –
        hoping – something sticks.

        It seems they have already concluded – citizens of Ontario
        are crazy.

        Welcome to the world – in Ontario.

    • All politics – are Local politics

      ‘[excerpt] By a 60% margin, the Union of B.C. Municipalities (UBCM) agreed that the “potential unintended consequences” were too great, and voted to make the province a “refuge from genetically engineered contamination.”’

      But, how are they voting – when it comes to wind turbines?

      Ah huh. Just great.

  27. Genetics is very complicated. Plant breeding has been done for centuries But now chromosomes or parts of chromosomes can be removed or have other genetic material spliced onto them for example.
    So plant breeding can be done much quicker now to produce better varieties.
    By the way far too complex to be discussed here and has nothing to do with IWTs

  28. Yes, is it not a nice warm fuzzy feeling the Liberals give us when they practice martial law!!

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