Survey distances vary on turbine setback

CHATHAM-KENT, ONTARIO, INTERNAIONAL POWER GDF SUEZ from Erieau Road 13Shelburne Free Press, Wes Kellar
Scott Funston, a Melancthon non-participating resident in proximity to Dufferin Wind Power Turbines T7 and T8, says he has surveys proving that T7 is less than 550 metres from his home.

But DWP says that “all turbines in the project are in compliance with the minimum setback of 550m,” and that it has sent Mr. Funston aerial maps showing that T7 has been measured at 562 metres, and T8 at 567m.

Mr. Funston says he has a Van Harten survey showing the centre of his house as 548.2 metres from the centre of Turbine T7, which would be 1.8 metres short of 550. He said he considers that the attached garage should be considered as part of the residence. The 548.2 measurement included the garage as part of the residence.

Rebecca Crump, director of development for DWP, however, said on Tuesday that the Ministry of Environment requires setback distances to be measured from the centre of the living space. Read article

22 thoughts on “Survey distances vary on turbine setback

  1. Check with your insurance agents about the legal insurance issues with attached garages. Aren’t they considered part pf the house for insurance purposes and you have to pay more insurance if you have an attached garage?
    People don’t just live in the centre of their houses. Garages are used for workshops and family rooms as well.

    Another example of how stupid thay are at QP or else the developers knew they could squeeze in more IWTs by this means.

    • They can squeeze in more IWTs, in rural Ontario, by using a 550m setback as well! A 2km setback would probably mean no IWTs anywhere in rural Ontario….at least rural Southern Ontario!

  2. Allstate, Nov.,2012
    “How Do Insurance Policies Define ‘Dwelling’?”

    Definition of ‘Dewlling’ in your Homeowners Insurance Policy
    Includes:
    Your deck
    Front and back porch
    An attached garage
    Dwelling coverage includes your home and its attached structures.

    Attached means atttached to your house or joined to your house.
    http://www.allstate.com/tools-and-resources/home-insurance/policies-define-dwelling.aspx

    There is no law that says you have to have heat and water in all the rooms of your dwelling.

  3. People need to know what their “Dwelling” means
    If you want to park your car in your “Dewlling” you are free to do so. Or you can use your attachments for watever purpose you want to use them for.

  4. An attached “garage” is in fact a mluti-purpose/multi-use room.
    So why can’t this be used as a basis to file a complaint with the crown attorney that this company is in violation of provincial law?

  5. Unfortunately, as you & we all know Barbara, this could be used as a basis to file a complaint with the crown, but doing so would do no good in the end, as the Wind Weasels run Ontario now so there is no way to win an ‘honest’ fight, with a corrupt, dishonest government and their partners/bosses the Wind industry. At least not until the Lying Liberals are replaced with a Conservative government, then there could be a minute chance of winning.

  6. Agreed, but it’s better to do something than it is to do nothing. At least this would be another instance where the government could be shown not to enforce the law and to fail to protect citizens.

    People can’t afford to sit back and do nothing but wait for another election.

  7. Yes Barbara, you’re right again as usual. We do have to do everything and anything in our power, to show voters what their chosen Gov. is really all about, so they’ll hopefully wake up and elect a Conservative government at the next opportunity.

  8. ALERT! ALERT!
    My Fraud-o-metre is going WILD!

    Can you spot the frauds???

    10 points! for the viewer who can pick out the most
    frauds in the following excerpt!

    Happy Fraud-spotting!

    ‘[excerpt] “Measurements can vary depending upon the type of equipment used, the experience of the person taking the measurement, and where these measurements are actually being taken. A key issue in the case of Mr. Funston is that he believes that his vehicle garage should be included in the measurement and provincial rules do not included non-living spaces into the calculation. “Both Dufferin Wind Power and the MOE have reconfirmed that Mr. Funston’s property is outside of the required setback.

    “From the centre of Mr. Funston’s Home to the centre of the turbine foundation, the ground level distance has been measured at between 551 and 552 metres.

    “However, sound measurements are determined differently. They are taken at 4.5 metres above ground for a two-story home (from the centre of the home) in a straight line, up to the nacelle of the turbine, where sound is generated. This straight line distance is 562 metres.

    “The project’s noise modeling is very conservative to ensure full compliance with provincial regulations. Dufferin Wind has confirmed that even with the MOE’s updated measurement, Mr. Funston’s property remains in full compliance with the noise regulations.

    “Of the many receptors within the project area, there is a very small number that are close to the minimum setback limit and survey teams have confirmed the measurements.’

  9. The government is allowed to determine which areas of your dwelling are non-living spaces?

    One of the first things that is taught in science is that measurements can vary due to the equipment that is being used. You have to work with equipment to know just how much measurements can vary.
    If you change equipment you change the outcome of measurements.
    This whole situation has been manipulated to serve the interests of the government and developers.
    Just a few words can never explain to the general public what is involved in measurements.

  10. In my opinion, these wind turbine industrialists are still trying to perpetuate the falsehood that the detrimental noise is generated in the nacelle of the turbine. It’s already been determined that the infrasound is the result of the pressure being extracted from the wind by the blades. It’s also been determined that the wall of a receptor building nearest the turbine is the first component of the building involved in the creation of amplifying standing-waves. I believe that by misrepresenting the means by which the turbines generate infrasound and impact receptor buildings, the industrialists and the government are disregarding the experiences, welfare and rights of the surrounding residents.

    • Infrasound can be generated in the wake of the Turbines, far from the Turbine. As we all know, from personal experience and common sense, a jet makes sound (in the boundary between the high-velocity-jet core and the at-rest air outside the jet, where the mixing makes intense eddies).
      Well folks, the wake of a Wind Turbine is, in effect, an inside-out jet! Same sound-generating action, but here the core is the low velocity (slowed by taking energy out of the approaching wind) and the surrounding air is the high velocity..
      If the source of the sound is distributed, then treating it as a point source and defining setbacks from that “point” is technically rubbish.
      Sorry to get so technical here, but this is fundamental fluid dynamics and sound generation.
      I doubt whether any of the MOE acousticians, Industry Noise Experts, or even some on “our side” fully understand infrasound generation.

  11. We plan on running independent candidates in vulnerable ridings in the next campaign. Am I allowed to say that here?

  12. No they don’t understand infrasound and MPPs likely don’t understand this either.

    At least the blades are part of the IWT structure so why isn’t their length included in distance measurements?
    Another issue that MPPs sould be pushed on.

  13. I wonder how much and how far infrasound/vibration travels through the ground from the footings/bases? There has to be some, similar to the vibration one feels when a D9 Cat dozer moves past the under construction house one is working in, on a construction site? This is felt hugely in Alberta, due to the clay soil. So it would depend heavily on the soil/rock type in the area upon which the bases are sitting.
    I’m presently rebuilding a large home in a soon to be IWT hellhole, so am trying to make it Turbine proof as much as possible. If the sound transfer is largely through the ground that is far more challenging to stop at the foundation than above ground noise is.
    Keeping shadow flicker out is another challenge, without cutting off daylight altogether.
    Turbines just aren’t compatible with residential areas. I guess that’s why they are called “Industrial”. They only belong, if anywhere, in Industrial zones, far away from all homes, schools etc. That’s also why they aren’t being built in Liberal ridings. Liberals politicians aren’t all stupid, just extremely corrupt, gullible, naïve, greedy, self-centred fools. But I digress.
    I think we (province of Urban) should not only secede from Toronto & the GTA (we keep the Oak Ridges Moraine, Niagara Escarpment to protect them) but join with the west to create our own country. See the latest poll numbers putting Liberals ahead in the east, Cons. in the west? This after Trudeau admitted to improperly, fraudulently(?) (over)-billing taxpayers by many thousands of dollars! Liberal voters are fine with corrupt politicians, as long as they’re Liberal? While Harper gets hammered for Con. senators small potato overbilling, nothing much is said about the worst offender by far, Liberal Mac Harb. A bit of media bias maybe?
    We definitely should be educating MPPs on the sound sources of IWTs and voters also need to be un-brainwashed somehow. A fair, unbiased media would sure help. At least allow us equal time.

  14. Most people don’t know what constitutes their dwelling and they don’t realize that the blades of an IWT are parts of the structure. Otherwise there is only a tower with a generator attached to the tower. In other words most of the public can’t separate out and define issues.

    With the coldest January in about 35 years maybe the public will wake up when they get their Hydro bills for this month.

    Approval for separation would likely be accomplished by township and county votes. Perhaps this leaves out much of suburban and urban Ontario areas as those who live there have different interests than rural Ontarians have.

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