Enforce the law: Hudak to energy minister

DSCN1599Amanda Moore, Grimsby Lincoln News
WEST LINCOLN — Tim Hudak has renewed the call for a province-wide moratorium on new industrial wind turbine projects. Last week, in an open letter to Energy Minister Bob Chiarelli, Hudak requested the Liberals implement an immediate moratorium on future projects in light of “the recent chaos” in West Lincoln.

The chaos the Ontario PC Leader is referring to is the revelation that four of the five HAF Wind Energy turbines do not meet setback requirements established by the ministry. Hudak said the ministry’s response is “unacceptable.” Since The News reported on the issue, it has come to light that four of the turbines infract on the minimum property line setback distance, rather than three as initially reported.

“The notion that the government is forgiving turbines that are breaking the law is just wrong,” Hudak told The News.  “What they should do is stop them. Put in a moratorium. And secondly, enforce the law. If the turbines don’t sit with the law, take them out.” Read article

53 thoughts on “Enforce the law: Hudak to energy minister

  1. Good for Tim Hudak for standing up for what is right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! – I am with you all the way Tim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. Here comes the clowns and there promises,and then oops we cannot do that just not now.
    Talk to later,I’ve got a meeting with some big corporate sponsors ,so see ya later.

  3. Too late for so many! It’s all political posturing, the last time promises were made…last election time.

  4. The Star, Feb.26,2014
    “Hydro One is a million times sorry”

    Hydro One installed a new billing system in May. As a result some customers got months of estimated bills, delayed bills, multiple bills or no bills at all.

    Was this new billing system installed in-house or by an outside contractor? either way it is shoddy work,
    Why wasn’t this brought up at QP or was it?

  5. The Queens Park her ass in our wallets and stolen our energy. the freakin crown and all the Crownies
    Win are you people going win without these sorry as is?
    No hope in these idiots that steal your volts of energy.
    Any reason they call it parties? They party on our stupidity on believing there bul sh it thru us throwing our money to the onk,onks .
    Legal robbery and all things legal is fraud

  6. Lead us to slaughter

    ‘[excerpt] “I’m not going to give up,” said Hudak. “It’s [moratorium] the right thing to do to get power rates under control and to restore local decision making. I’m not going to give up until that’s done.”

    Please don’t “restore local decision making”!!!
    Especially without defining what that means!!!

    • Agreed.

      I sense that Hudak wants to do the right thing, but somebody needs to ride side saddle on him until he gets pointed in the right direction.

      Some of his MPPs have been helpful to our cause, but I’m a bit leery of their ability to grasp the situation.

      The status quo, however, is still the worst option …

  7. How much will it cost to send out this number of letters? Why not demand an answer to this question from both Hydro One and MPPs?
    Why hasn’t the surveyors license been suspended pending an investigation into these surveying errors? No competent surveyor could make these kinds of mistakes in my opinion.

    • Ever wondered why the Sideroads and Concession roads do not meet correctly — and why there are jogs in the road?

      There are all kinds of ways to make those errors including using the wrong map datum — through error or direction to use them. In the early days it was small errors in the chain lengths.

      People that use “High Accuracy” GPS systems for placing items do not always realize that there are many types of errors in those systems. They are supposed to be good to the centimeter or millimeter — but it depends on the time of day… Also whether it is DGPS. I doubt that a surveyor placed those towers — likely it was an overconfident nit with a GPS who did not understand the error calculations.

      Having said that there should not have been an error — a safety margin should have been included. That safety margin depends on the equipment.

      Maybe he used NAD 83 instead of WGS84 — although they should be identical. Maybe he used an old GPS without the NAD updates, Just sayin’

      Geo-Mapping 101.

  8. I should also point out that the IWTs were likely placed on a map. That map will have a datum and a correction factor (typically) which brings it into the WGS84 datum space.

    Those corrections are simply a coordinate transform. If somebody did not take them into account, that would explain the error. I still see lots of maps that are NAD27 or NAD 83 with coordinate transforms for WGS84.

    Combine any transform errors with GPS errors and modest surveyor errors — and there you go — a placement error. Most GPS systems are set to WGS84 — usually WGS84 UTM (Universal Transverse Mercator) if it is for survey work. UTM has a built in error as it transforms from spherical coordinates (the “globe” of the earth) to a rectangular grid. Usually if a 50,000 meter grid is used the errors are negligible. The “globe” ain’t even a globe — it’s more like a pear.

    Still — if a surveyor was used it should have been somebody certified for “Control Survey” work or whatever the term is here. Minor errors over several kilometers — plus terrain corrections — and these types of errors are easy to make. Somebody capable of “Control Surveys” would certainly know how to avoid those errors.

    It could well be that somebody wanted to make a point — that they could get the turbines as close as possible and still be within the margin of error — if so they lost.

    As a note: — I do this type of work in mineral exploration and do know how to use coordinate transforms and create them to bring different surveys into a common space.

    I tried to make this understandable — so it could well be that somebody wants to say my explanation is wrong — and the would probably be right.

    Bottom line — if somebody is working too close to the edge of measurement ability you get these kinds of “rookie” errors.

    Third attempt to make this “innocent post”.

    • Re: the sound level modelling, “expert” acoustician, Shant Dokouzian from GLGH testified at the Kerwood Wind appeal, “If we were to add the standard deviation, we would not be giving accurate results…The idea here is to predict the most accurate results with conservative assumptions.If we were to add what we call the standard deviation to everything, we would not be giving accurate results.”
      What do you say of someone who deliberately refuses to apply the confidence factor for a model? – “rookie error”?
      How does the PEO (Professional Engineers Ontario) view such practice?

      • Standard deviation is just a way of measuring how far you fall from the expected mean (average).

        For that to be useful it must be a certain type of measurement. For some truly random values it is not useful — but many measurements do have expected values. If you are making boards eight feet long you expect the values to be clustered just above eight feet long — since you must have a board at least eight feet long. Particle boards are actually sold by weight — some are 48 lb boards — so again you expect the values when measured to be just above 48 lbs. They must be no less by law.

        Generally any measurement will have a measurement error. Then when the data is plugged into formulas there is a standard way of determining the calculation errors.

        So the statement above, made by the acoustician is correct — as quoted. Without seeing the the entire conversation segment I could say no more.

        If he was collecting noise values at a point over a short period of time there would emerge a central value. Then he could say there was a mean (average) a standard deviation and a bunch of other factors. However — if the wind changed speed or direction then the expected values would change — perhaps dramatically.

        For such measurements to be useful you would have to (for each measurement point) build a complete table of wind speed vs noise for say, each major point on the compass.

        Hope that makes sense.

      • A confidence factor when measuring noise outdoors is something I might express like this…

        When we are measuring noise from that turbine — at this point I would expect a value of 42 dBA measured with my XYZ microphone based on Standard temperature and pressure. Then I would modify that based on an deviation according to my model of how the noise should change for combined temperature and pressure shifts. I would also refer to the table we had built for wind speed and direction. That would further modify my expected value.

        From that I would expect that 95% of the time the value should fall within the range of values expected — which might be 42dBA plus or minus 2dBA. If the wind shifted from NNW to NW my table might say that previous measurements had shown an expected value — at that point — of 43dBA plus or minus 2.5 dBA.

        Of course I might be comparing calculations to actual measured values.

        That would be my confidence factor.

        Now maybe that differs from how you or someone else sees it — but that would be in general how I would start.

        I was ignoring the microphone and measurement equipment errors for simplicity and clarity.

      • A pig in a poke!

        ‘[excerpt] Re: the sound level modelling, “expert” acoustician, Shant Dokouzian from GLGH testified at the Kerwood Wind appeal, “If we were to add the standard deviation, we would not be giving accurate results…The idea here is to predict the most accurate results with conservative assumptions.If we were to add what we call the standard deviation to everything, we would not be giving accurate results.”

  9. Next try explainig this to a lawyer or a judge who has no scientific education.

    Wasn’t one measurement off by some 29 metres or ~ 92 feet? Would anyone hire these surveyors to survey their property or site a structure?

  10. Yes it is political posturing and it is election year etc etc!- I get all of that!! but and I mean but so far Tim Hudak has had the balls to say something about it!! – not lets hope he means it!! – and yes I won’t give up what I am going!! and some of the big fools are Premier Wynne . Andrea Horwath and the energy minister !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all of who I keep emailing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! – how about you!!???

  11. This madness will not stop until the PC’s are elected, plain and simple. The repeated calls by PC’s Hudak, MacLeod, Thompson Fedeli, Barrett and others to scrap the GEA, enact a moratorium and restore local decision making must be supported as our best and fastest route to end this madness.
    The Liberals, NDP and Greens are all either too corrupt, stupid or incompetent to ever right this injustice and currently our ERT actions are futile in this rigged game that won’t change until the government does.
    Our inspiration should come from Australia where the current wind reversal is happening due to last September’s change in government with the election of PM Tony Abbott and his largely anti-wind Liberal National party Coalition.
    I implore all to take an active role in the upcoming Provincial election to defeat as many Liberals and NDP’s as possible and we here in Niagara will be targeting MOE Minister Bradley for his deserved and resounding defeat.

    • Yes lets everyone get out and participate in this next election!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there has to be a change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. Yes Neil, I totally agree.

    Let’s not forget that the NDP all voted for the Green Energy Act in 2009.

    They bought the promise that it would only raise hydro rates by 1 percent. Check the hansards debates April 2009.

    Now they are complaining about the high cost of hydro.

    The PC party is the best choice for Ontario.

    • They also voted against the moratorium resolutions forwarded by Lisa Thompson, even though these were private member bills with only symbolic significance.
      Make no mistake the NDP position on GEA and wind development is more radical than even McWhinnty fantasies.

  13. Both the Liberals and the NDP will promise urban voters “the moon” if necessary to get or stay in power.
    About the only common issue between urban and rural voters is the high cost of electricity.

    • You’re right Barbara! There IS some common ground between urban and rural voters in the form of the high cost of electricity but if urban voters don’t have to live with wind “farms” they’ll sacrifice a few extra dollars, on their electricity bills, as doing their part to make Ontario “GREEN”!! and save the environment from the ravages of “Climate Change”!

  14. Yes I live on rural property and the hydro is right out of this world!! – not only that I don’t get too much bang for my buck regarding taxes!! no city water, no sewers, no sidewalks etc!!!!!!!!!! and then on top of it we have the smart meters!! every time I flush the toilet it costs me!! and every time I turn on a tap it costs me!! it just goes on and on!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. Right Lyn, it’s expensive to pump water using electricity.
    Now the idiots are proposing that wood can be used for heating and cooking.
    All the scandals of this present government don’t matter to voters.

    Environmental movement is largely an urban movement and some city folks who moved out to the country to have vacation places.

  16. This should be wood can’t be used for heating and cooking.

    These urban environmentalists have no idea about what it takes to run electric pumps and maintain hand pumps to have a supply of water.

  17. York University
    Mark Winfield Faculty Profile, Jan.27,2013

    Ontario’s New Premier: Implications For Energy And Environmental Policy

    Scroll down to:
    “However, Wynne’s camp reflected far greater potential for the kind of deeper and more imaginative thinking on environmental and energy issues the province needs.”
    Note the role that Minister Glenn Murray played.

    Maybe sheds more light on the present situation.

    • Ontario – Wake Up!

      Social Justice – code for communism;
      and, that’s all you need to know.

      ‘[excerpt] Former Winnipeg Mayor and Colleges and Universities Minister Glenn Murray – well known for his knowledge of climate change and energy issues (his leadership campaign appearance of Global TV’s Focus Ontario featured some very detailed comments on the virtues of community energy planning), the potential role of fiscal instruments in environmental policy, and urban sustainability – abandoned his own leadership bid and moved to the Wynne camp early on. He is an obvious potential choice for minister of energy (and climate change?), infrastructure or municipal affairs and housing. Gerard Kennedy, whose move to Wynne was a crucial moment during the convention, in addition to his extensive knowledge of social justice issues, has served as federal Liberal environment critic, is another potential senior member of Wynne’s staff if not a front bench member of the cabinet.’

      More crap…………………
      ‘[excerpt] Kathleen Wynne herself is well known as an intelligent and thoughtful individual, and has the potential to draw a new generation of talent into a government and party that was looking tired and out of ideas.’

      Election Year 2014 –
      All Politics are Local Politics;
      Get Rid of your ‘green’ mayor!

      • Discussion of the CAO’s goals and objectives?

        More Vodka, and call Putin; maybe,
        he can explain ‘thug’ objectives!

        ‘[excerpt] Councillors meeting Tuesday at Shire Hall will review a report from Chief Administrative Officer Merlin Dewing recommending a mid-term review of progress.
        “As we approach council’s mid-term, council has made significant progress on many of its objectives,” Dewing said in a report written to explore potential and merit of reviewing achievements to date and setting or adjusting the course for council’s remaining two years.
        “A mid-term ‘check-in’ is a common activity to ensure and verify the global goals and objectives are aligned with our strategic planning and actions,” said Dewing.
        The session could include:
        – Refresh of orientation which also serves as a reminder of policies, roles and responsibilities
        -Discussion of the CAO’s goals and objectives
        -Discussion of ongoing corporate realignment and implementation
        -Review of progress made to date on priorities
        -Identification of new priorities or adjustments to existing programs
        -Forum for identifying concerns or concepts for better council team work, council staff relations and council constituent relations.
        The session, he said, should include all members of council and senior staff to build trust and synergy.
        “A facilitated session is strongly recommended to foster full, open and honest communication and participation by all present,” he said, suggesting the week of October 15. He suggests funding for the session can be accommodated within the existing budget for training and education.

        Filed Under: Council Watch • Local News

        Prince Edward County ‘council’ –
        transferred all their power
        …over to the mayor, and CAO.

        So – who’s stupid now?

      • That would be the same Gerard Kennedy who hoisted Dion onto the LPC, and who has lost every contest he has entered since, including his federal MP seat in Toronto, and the provincial leadership race.

  18. Barbara, here is the link to the report on Pupatello’s defeat.

    Hoskins flipped his vote on Pupatello… I think she lost by ~240 votes.

    Pupatello was asked to join cabinet in Feb. of 2013 and turned down the offer.She left politics ( again) in March 2013

    • I don’t…who?
      …and with all due respect Barbara, you continually post half information here…you sort make your posts a puzzle that everyone has to figure out. If you are going to post, would you be kind enough to include all information, I do not have time to decipher your posts and chase information that you could easily include.

  19. Barbara! Sorry to be a skeptic and my apologies if I have missed it but has any of your incredible research shown any Ontario PC MPPs on the boards of any companies associated with wind energy?
    It doesn’t alter the fact that Tim H. and the PCs are the only potential provincial government who have publicly promised to halt the wind scam if elected and so the only choice we actually have!
    I just find I now mistrust practically every politician of any party do do the right thing once they have been elected.
    If there are PC MPPs invested in wind energy it would be nice to know what opposition a PC government may face within its own ranks?
    If the PCs should be elected it is unlikely, on present showing, that they would have a majority?
    Without one they are going to have a huge fight to get any amendments on any part of the GEA and/or FIT program approved.
    Andrew Watts

    • Hey Andrew Watts,
      Yeah – decisions – decisions – decisions;
      just like war games!

      Why don’t you relax – and, take a college course!
      Or, maybe, take your wife out to dinner.

      Life is short!

      • Hey Free Thinker –
        I work really hard at ignoring really stupid posts, because there really is no point in responding, but, golly, if you have absolutely nothing coherent to say, I just wish you would just not say it.

        I know this will unleash even more of the same, bit really…

        Why don’t you relax – and, take a college course!
        Or, maybe, take your wife out to dinner.

        Life is short!

    • Any PC government minority, or otherwise could not help being a vast improvement over a decade old, scandal ridden Liberal regime, beholden to the wind industry. As for the NDP, the utterances of their federal sisters, Megan Leslie, Peggy Nash provide a stark picture of where they stand on renewable energy.
      Would A PC government provide instant relief from IWT development? Probably not, but
      at least they would not ramp up construction, as is taking place now. They are Ont only hope for a rational energy policy.

  20. Frank Klees so far but private companies are difficult to search as they don’t have to reveal who the board members are.

    Monte Qwinter was Parliamentary assistant to Sandra Pupatello who was Minister of Economic Development and Trade in the 39th Parliament. 2007-2011.

    Qwinter represented Ontario at the UN Green Bonds Summit in the time frame 2010-2011.

  21. Greg, assumed that people knew who Hoskins was associated with as this information was posted at OWR in late Dec.,2012 or early in 2013.
    David Suzuki is the answer.

    • Thanks. I had to google up who Hoskins even is; most of these Liberal cabinet ministers are non entities outside their Toronto ridings. His wife is on the Suzuki Foundation Board.

  22. Toronto Life, Feb.22, 2012
    “Confidence Man: how Glen Murray is positioning himself to grab the reins of political power”

    “Brought in from Winnipeg and remade as an influential member of McGuinty’s inner circle.”

    This is a 5 page article which also sheds light on what’s gone on in Ontario.

  23. Paul martin has had a long association with Maurice Strong.

    This information is easily available with an internet search.

  24. Greg, while I would like to comment on posts there are copyright and libel laws that have to be observed.
    So much of the time the best I can do is to post the links and let readers take it from there.
    And indeed there is a “puzzle” that has to be put togther.Or in other words put the picture togther.

  25. Mr. Rankin, and his company, certainly get around!! There are Rankin Construction trucks all over the place in East Haldimand giving Samsung a hand installing their high voltage lines in the neighbourhood road ditches and under intersections. Things must have slowed down for him in Glanbrook/West Lincoln! I guess he’s getting some of the 50,000 jobs the Liberals have promised!

    • Hi John! Oh! You’re talking about those 50.000 ‘green’ jobs…….??? 🙂
      A ‘snippet’ going back to Harper’s ‘Stimulus Package’ after the 2008 recession.
      When Rankin was asked to comment he said whilst he welcomed the stimulus cash and would be taking advantage of anything that may come his way he had no intention of increasing his workforce!
      To him the tax dollars offered by that Stimulus Package was just more corporate welfare without his company having to producing a single new job, ‘green’ or otherwise.
      You will find his trucks anywhere and everywhere he can get his hands on more of our tax dollars!
      I guess you have to admit he is good at doing that. He’s a perfect example of the supposed ‘private sector’ feeding from the ‘public sector’ trough.
      Andrew Watts

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