Lambton County council backs request to participate in second environmental review tribunal ERT

LAMBTONBy Barbara Simpson, Sarnia Observer
Lambton County may join a second legal battle brewing over the development of another industrial wind farm in its boundaries.

County council voted Wednesday in favour of joining a potential environmental review tribunal hearing in the event the Ministry of the Environment approves Suncor’s 46-turbine Cedar Point Wind project set for Plympton-Wyoming, Lambton Shores and Warwick Township.  This move would mark the county’s second time participating as a party before the environmental review tribunal.

The county is currently participating in a tribunal hearing over NextEra Energy’s 92-turbine Jericho Wind Energy project. The tribunal must find serious harm could be caused to human or environmental health before it can overturn the project’s MOE approval. Read article

44 thoughts on “Lambton County council backs request to participate in second environmental review tribunal ERT

  1. For God’s sake , the ERT’s are kangaroo hearings set up by the government to make you think you
    are doing something to stop this insanity.
    We are all just following their control.
    Dismissed, dismissed and dismissed.

  2. The burden of proof that is required for these ERTs can’t be met and this was fixed to begin with.

    No one can prove the future. So dismissed!

    People need to have reasons to stop this insanity and here is another reason:

    Bloomberg, July 2, 2014

    “Hackers Find A Back Door to Power Grid With Renewables”

    “Making the electricity grid greener is is boosting its vulnerability to computer hacking, increasing the risk that spies or criminals can cause blackouts.”

    Security issues will become a nightmare!

    • Interesting point, Barbra. Given that wind turbines have been in operation in Ontario since 1994, can you share how many incidents have occurred through that vector since that time? To sway the pro-wind crowd, we need to share hard numbers. They don’t buy into the conjecture.

      • Think Smart Grid – Buy a Generator
        ……and, tell a neighbour – to tell a neighbour – and so on…..

      • This is just new information. Until there is information to rely on that there is a problem there is little chance of getting any information on this subject. Probably would take a series of FOIs to get at this kind of information.
        The government would never admit there are security problems associated with “green” grids.
        Look forward to a new line on Hydro bills named costs for grid security.

    • I appreciate and share in your concern, but how can we tell the pro-wind people that “security issues will become a nightmare” if there is nothing to substantiate the claim? For all we know, the successful intrusions are on the decline.

      To add, there have been several widely reported successful attacks on nuclear plants over the years (not Ontario specifically). How should we respond when a pro-wind person says “but nuclear plants are equally insecure, and a lot more scary in what an attacker can do”?

      • There will be thousands of places to breech security in these new “green” grids where as there are only a few places to breech in conventional power grids.

        This demand side management of power on the grid where individuals power can be cut off provides all kinds of places for hackers to operate.

        This is a new consideration that has now been published. Copy the article and this will at least make people aware of this developing situation.

        Rural Ontarians have to be on the watch and uncover issues because those a QP are not going to do this and make themselves look bad.

    • As all computer professionals know, security through obscurity is no security at all. One single vulnerable turbine or one single vulnerable smart meter is as equally insecure as has having thousands of insecure points. The threat doesn’t become bigger by having more of the same.

      I understand your message was intended for the echo chamber of OWR, where we all have a unified perspective and can have a little fun with that, but it is becoming clear that people outside of our community are also picking up on these messages. We don’t want to play on the ignorance and fear of the public. If we cannot sway public opinion on facts alone, we are doing everyone, including ourselves, a disservice.

      Thanks for sharing the link though. It does deserve time in the spotlight.

      • Bloomberg publishes information that is of concern to the business community and the fact that they published this is why this was posted at OWR.

        Power is going to be supplied to the grid from a number of “power plants”/wind and not just from one power supplier. So this raises concerns that this will provide more places for computer hackers to attack.

        In no way should be be spreading false alarms but important issues do need to be addressed.

    • Respectfully, your concern is of merit. The assumptions built upon that concern, told as truths, is the point of contention.

      While it is true that multiple providers are connected to the grid, the article says nothing about multiple firmware authors. We know most providers are buying existing solutions, and could even surmise that a single company provides the firmware for every system.

      What data is there to support the idea of thousands of different firmware developers each creating their own uniquely vulnerable systems?

      • DTan, thanks for your followup on this issue. I’m not a computer expert but others who post here do know a lot about computer issues.

        And the fact that this issue is of businesses concern says a lot too.

    • It serves as a gentle reminder, but keep in mind that NextEra is partially owned by Google. Northland Power was born out of the success of Computerland. The names we keep reading about have deep ties in the technology industry. To suggest they, of all companies, do not understand the implications of the technology is going to raise a few eyebrows.

      Thanks for the chat.

      • In no way did I imply that these renewable energy companies don’t understand computer issues.
        Perhaps it’s the general public that dosen’t understand or has been kept in the dark about “green” grid security issues.
        Again, when the business world gets concerned about hacking into power grids then it’s time to take notice of this situation.

        Thanks for more information about NextEra, Google, and Northland Power.

      • Since I do work with control systems and embedded systems as well as other business related systems I will say that Barbara’s concerns are closer to the mark than most realize.

        Recently I have been “listening in” on and contributing to some IEEE courses on embedded and control security. There are issues. I will leave it at that.

  3. We seem to left with few options to deal with these wind projects. Could the 80 plus unwilling host communities not unite to deal with the Federal government. We all have MP s who are there to represent us. How can they ignore the whole of rural southern Ontario and most of rural Canada? A few years ago I gave our MP Larry Miller (PC) a copy of a petition that we did on the Bruce Peninsula, about 6000 signatures saying they did not want to see any more wind turbines here, we have only three small IWT here on Northern Bruce Peninsula at the moment. Mr. Miller said he would take the copied petition signatures back to Ottawa with him but he could not do much with them as they were not the original sheets. He said he would keep them and use them if the opportunity arose.

    • To stop a fraud is to not be a fraud or know you your self is not acting as a fraud. Even though full disclosure was not brought forth to us but you need to know this and act in lawful jurisdiction.
      You all rely on BOZO THe CLOWNS to try to help us in this mess,when in fact it is these clowns that you have representing you that are not helping cause we are acting in fraud.
      YOUR F en name is the cause and you get no where with these pimps.
      Swallow your ego and jump off there pirate ship!!!!!!!!!!! Knock them windturbines down this way.
      They got us in legal jurisdiction 2 different things. WAKE UP!!!!!

    • As I see it, natural resources including wind energy development is strictly a provincial responsibility. Somewhat similar to Quebec’s development of hydro electricity in the 1970s; there is precious little that falls under federal jurisdiction. I stated here before, this problem was created out of whole cloth by the McGuinty Liberal government, and is carried forward by the Wynne government. A solution to the problem awaits a different government in Ont. Unfortunately a different government was not elected 2 weeks ago.
      I’m afraid Wynne has the power to carry out her program, not that she has any mandate from rural Ont to do that, but that is where the IWTs will be built, whether she has a mandate or not. Unfortunately she is now the premier of all Ont, not just the seats her party carried,

      Property rights were conveniently left out of the 1982 Charter, so there is very little in that document to halt rampant industrial development. Not to say we should give up the fight, but Ont citizens can expect little help from anyone on this. Elections matter, none more than the last one. One slight hope is that NY bond rating agencies may curtail some of Wynne’s spending excesses. Other than that, I’m sure she will move to complete the building program in the remaining 4 years. Ont is the architect of its own decline.

      • My argument:
        Wynne has no power – without the mayors;
        and, what does that tell you?

        Welcome to rural Ontario – and, wind turbines;
        and, the McGuinty/Wynne mayors!

      • The Ontario bond rating has dropped so now it should cost more money for Ontario to borrow money.

        As long as people continue to spend and keep the sales tax money flowing to Toronto there will be money to repay these loans.

        But if people quit spending and only buy essential goods and non-taxable items this will cut down on the money supply for the government.

        However, people will have to be prepared to make sacrifices to do this. Even a modest drop in tax funds collections can affect the bond market.

  4. Pembina Institute Advisory Council includes:
    Preston Manning, Pres. & CEO of the Manning Centre
    Michael Adams, Founding president of Environics Research Group, Toronto
    Board of Directors includes:
    David Runnals, long time associate of Maurice Strong & on Advisory Council for EDC Canada

    Environics did polling for the June, 2014 Ontario election.

    Don’t polling companies need to NOT associate with any other organizations? Keep themselves neutral?

      Advisors include:
      Michael Adams who is also on the Premier’s Climate Change Advisory Panel & on the Steering Committee of Sustainable Development.

      Sustainable Prosperty members also include:
      Andrew Heintzman
      Preston Manning
      David Runnalls

      These people are under the impression that they run Canada & Ontario.

      Maybe it’s time to ask some questions about election polling in Ontario?

  5. Martin, here is a repost from June.Plan B- Remember that the IWT policy at the federal level, which is funded through the Min of Nat. Res. Canada, is industry lead and government subsidized.

    And with the PC loss in Ontario and the number of Supreme court decisions against a number of their policies, the most recent defeat of a federal PC policy( part of C-13) being the requirement of a warrant to obtain someone’s IP address from an internet provider is now NEEDED,

    The federal PC’s can see that the presentation of policy, as presented here in Ontario, will NOT work well. Our Federal PC MP’s need to be strongly engaged and do not let them away with saying “wait for the Health Canada study results” ( Everyone reading this blog knows there are a number of uncertainties with the frame work of the study and that it will not render a definitive answer to causality.). You are all very creative and intelligent people out there who can come up with a strategy to ensure the federal PC’s change their IWT policy. And if ANYONE gets a hold of the official Federal IWT policy, that has been stated, is out there in government –land some where, PLEASE share it. The “policy on IWT” was supposed to have been changed????? To what ?? who knows!

    Yes there are council elections coming up, too as another plan B

  6. Todays news item confirms that Moody’s bond rating service has slapped a negative label on Ont debt. This just before the throne speech, but conveniently after the election. According to Moody’s “Failure to redress the fiscal challenges would add further pressure to a debt burden that has worsened in recent years”
    No kidding!

    • If even a 10% reduction in GST collections would cause financal problems.

      There are many ways in which rural Ontarians can cut back on paying GST on items.Wait for items to go on sale is one example but this will require sacrifice to accomplish this.

      Only buy what you need.

      Financial pressure will have to be put on QP. There is no magic solution to be had.

  7. On the hottest days this week, our power went out approximately a half dozen times, only briefly. Do you think it has something to do with the industrial wind energy facilities ~ 10 km away?
    Haven’t noticed any of our electronics got fried.
    Would have played havoc with our back-up generator and security system and alarms…

  8. You should blame – the Harper Conservatives
    for the wind turbines in Ontario.

    Just in case –
    there is some confusion…

    Where were you in 2005?

    ‘[excerpt] May 14, 2005′
    Mr. Ansar Gafur
    Vice President – External Relations
    AIM PowerGen Corporation
    200 Consumers Road, Suite 604
    Toronto, Ontario M2J 4R4′

    Subject: Federal Comments on the Revised Erie Shores Wind Farm Environmental Impact Statement, WPPI Registration No. 5902-A2-2’

    ‘[excerpt] NRCan notes in its letter of April 8, 2005, that it would like the proponent to clarify in the EIS whether or not all residences found within the study area have been included in the noise study conducted in association with the environmental assessment. NRCan also noted that it is expected that all residences, regardless of whether a property intends to host a wind turbine, will not be at risk of significant environmental impacts with respect to operational noise.

    The proponent has submitted a revised environmental noise analysis, and has stated that turbines are located at a minimum set-back of 250 m in order to provide a base level of mitigation. However, it is unclear as to how the environmental noise analysis was revised, as the current version states that “receptors defined under MOE guidelines were identified and consisted of non-leaseholder residential dwellings” and that “participating landowners upon whose lands a turbine is located were not included as receptors as defined by Ministry documents”. It is also unclear whether 250 m is adequate to mitigate against the potential human health effects assoicated with noise emissions from the wind farm.’

    ‘[excerpt] Should you have any question regarding the information above, please do not hesitate to contact me at (613) 944-6159, or via email at


    Curtis Lockett
    Environmental Assessment Officer
    Wind Power Production Incentive
    Natural Resources Canada

    c.c. Iannick Lamirande, Natural Resources Canada – via email
    Darla Cameron, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency – via email’


    But no mention of the “Clear Creek,” “Cultus,” and “Frogmore” 3 x 9.9-megawatt ‘RESOP’ contracts?

    ‘[excerpt] Law Firms
    Bingham Law
    Blake, Cassels & Graydon LLP
    Borden Ladner Gervais LLP
    McInnes Cooper
    White & Case LLP
    Farris, Vaughan, Wills & Murphy LLP
    McCarthy Tétrault LLP
    Stewart McKelvey
    Torys LLP
    Chadbourne & Parke LLP
    Morrison & Foerster LLP’

    Something more current?

  10. C2C Power LP
    105 Commerce West
    Suite 410
    Markham, ON L3T 7W3

    C2C Power Financing 3 LP
    105 Commerce Valley Drive West
    Suite 410
    Markham, ON L3T 7W3

    Japan Bank For International Cooperation/JBIC
    Includes Erieau Wind Power Generation Project

    Maybe you could just phone C2C Power LP and ask them about the projects in question or ask GDF Suez Canada.

  11. A note from Symantec on hackers and the energy grid:

    An ongoing cyberespionage campaign against a range of targets, mainly in the energy sector, gave attackers the ability to mount sabotage operations against their victims. The attackers, known to Symantec as Dragonfly, managed to compromise a number of strategically important organizations for spying purposes and, if they had used the sabotage capabilities open to them, could have caused damage or disruption to energy supplies in affected countries.

    Among the targets of Dragonfly were energy grid operators, major electricity generation firms, petroleum pipeline operators, and energy industry industrial equipment providers. The majority of the victims were located in the United States, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Turkey, and Poland.

    The Dragonfly group is well resourced, with a range of malware tools at its disposal and is capable of launching attacks through a number of different vectors. Its most ambitious attack campaign saw it compromise a number of industrial control system (ICS) equipment providers, infecting their software with a remote access-type Trojan. This caused companies to install the malware when downloading software updates for computers running ICS equipment. These infections not only gave the attackers a beachhead in the targeted organizations’ networks, but also gave them the means to mount sabotage operations against infected ICS computers.

    This campaign follows in the footsteps of Stuxnet, which was the first known major malware campaign to target ICS systems. While Stuxnet was narrowly targeted at the Iranian nuclear program and had sabotage as its primary goal, Dragonfly appears to have a much broader focus with espionage and persistent access as its current objective with sabotage as an optional capability if required.

    A fairly serious problem it seems.

  12. Un consent from all contracts that bind
    This is useful to hear and those that have contracts from wind corporations get them off your back and have peace back with your neighbours that do not want to live next to them. End the contracts and let them clean up there mess Off course all lawful and with no lawyers at all .

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