Is it time to split Ontario into two provinces, Toronto and Not Toronto?

toronto-turbine2Scott Stinson, National Post
Whatever its merits in between writ periods, electoral reform is, in the days following a general vote, the refuge of the loser. You can always tell which party came out on the wrong end of a result by how quickly its members muse about rule changes.

In the case of Randy Hillier, the suspenders-wearing sometime-maverick PC MPP from eastern Ontario farm country, he skipped over the usual suspects like proportional representation and single-transferable vote electoral systems and went straight to the nuclear option: floating the idea that Ontario should be carved into two provinces, Toronto and Not Toronto. Or maybe the latter would be named something a little more catchy: Thunder Lonwindsawa or something. We’re just spitballing here.

As was, quite obviously, Mr. Hillier. “The time is either fast approaching or already here that Toronto ought to become a province unto its own,” he told Yahoo Canada, citing the “distinctive differences” between the province’s largest city and the rest of it.

Well, sure. There are indeed notable differences between Toronto and Not Toronto. Northern Ontarians want the right to shoot more bears, while most Torontonians would clutch their pearls tightly at the mere thought of it. Southwestern Ontario has seen its manufacturing economy devastated while the big city has largely chugged along. Rural communities remain spitting mad about the clusterfudge of the Green Energy Act, while at ground zero of the gas-plant scandal in suburban Toronto, the Liberals won easily. Read article

33 thoughts on “Is it time to split Ontario into two provinces, Toronto and Not Toronto?

  1. As a delegate to the annual AMO conference, I attended as a rural councilor, a heated debate occurred over the future of the bears,

    A city council gal protested that the best way to control the bear population was not to shoot them but to give the dear things birth control pills,
    .
    To which a wizened delegate from the far flung woods of Halliburton stated. “Lady the bears do not want to screw my sheep. They want to eat them.”

    Well, there is not much doubt over who is getting screwed.in Ontario under this government.
    It is time for a divorce.

    • I’m not sure the city has a monopoly on stupidity. From what I’ve seen, it would appear the current provincial government is intent on screwing everyone equally, albeit in different ways.

  2. Those involved in the Green Energy Act and promoting renewable by and large don’t live in rural Ontario, but they do makes lots of money off from this scam.

    Separation would not be easy but neither are 6,700 IWTs easy to take.

    A topic worthy of consideration.

    • I can never get a handle on the no of turbines operating, certainly not from the Wind associations. I am using a figure of about 1500 for the province currently.
      I noted that Chiarelli mentioned the development program was less than 1/4 completed (not in as many words but easy to estimate). This gave a figure of about 6000, are you using similar projections to get the figure of 6700?
      Whatever the figure, the point is that the Liberal program is just getting underway; frightening as it sounds, the goal is something over 6000 units, and they have unfettered power to achieve this over the next 4 years. A pity this wasn’t discussed before Jun 12.

      • The 6,700 figure is a couple of years old and should be in the archives. But maybe now these are larger turbines so the projected electricity production could be near the same but IWTs fewer in number.

        Figures are based on so called production capacity / nameplate capacity. These are shifting numbers and have been discussed here many times.

        As far as I know this would not include any offshore turbines.

        And your point that rural Ontario has no say now in this matter is so true!

  3. What Mr. Hillier speaks of is the truth !! just take a look of a aerial map of Ontario – just to see how the Ontario people voted – Red all in the Toronto area and the rest of Ontario Blue !! when it comes to the NO MORAL COMPASS PARTY (formerly the Liberals) if issues to do pertain to the Toronto area!!! is plainly takes a back seat!!!! – unless it is going to line the pockets of the Liberals and their associates!!

  4. Any chance of placing a comment in here,or does this site have problems again? Check to see if this one goes,only a test.

    • Something certainly does not seem right,been trying to put comments in here but refuses
      But the above comment worked and before this one it did not again. I have tried several days now and it will not.
      What gives here? Honestly?

  5. Hey Ontario!

    Liberal transparency – nothing is seen, nothing is known;
    but, please forward your depositions on liberal corruption;
    and, slide under the door.
    All is relevant – for the rubbish pile.

    Welcome to Ontario!

    • Well put Free Thinker!! and to think that I live in the fruit belt of Ontario – they are taking out vineyards , fruit trees left right and center!! – but good things grow in Ontario!!!! – right if you can find them!!!

      STOP THE WIND TURBINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Does anyone in your area have photos of these events?

        Urbanites rely on pictures for information! Like the TV news!

      • Hi Bab!! good thinking !!! – I will check with the farm next to me!! they took out approx 100 acres of fruit trees to include cherry/apple and pears!!! – I felt like crying!!!

      • Why not try sending pictures/photos along with you e-mails to Wynne so she can better understand what you are saying.?

    • Has Wynne even viewed “Down Wind”?

      Maybe one of the MPPs will ask this question in the OLA? It would be interesting to learn what here response to this question would be.

      • Any reason you’d ask about an entertainment piece over the actual peer-reviewed research that went into the video? I, personally, would like to know she has a strong handle on the issues.

      • Real people shared their IWT experiences with the public in this documentary.

        And it’s the real people who need to be heard. So did Wynne hear these real people or not? If she did then what if any response does she have?

      • Hello! that is the MILLION $$$ question!!! – I have suggested to her time and time again to do herself a favor and watch the documentary DOWNWINED!! if she cared!!!! – to date she has not responded!!!

      • DTan, Wynne has degrees in Education so not likely to have much of a science education. Source is Wikipedia for this information.

        Energy Matters, July 14, 2014

        “Renewable Energy Growth in Perspective”

        Has good discussion on renewable energy matters and some good graphs. Some of the information you have mentioned is here.
        http://www.euanmearns.com/renewable-energy-growth-in-perspective

    • ‘[excerpt] How about this provision from Abbott’s plan?

      “In order to enable an appropriate return within 5 years, it is possible larger projects with greater abatement potential will require a higher cost per ton abatement… The Government recognises that some projects may deliver large volumes of emissions reductions and the Emissions Reduction Fund should provide incentives for such projects. The Government will retain discretion to enter out-of-auction contracts for major projects which can deliver emissions reductions above 250 000 tonnes of CO2-e per year, on average, or 1.25 MtCO2-e or more over the contract period. To enable this, the Clean Energy Regulator will be given the flexibility to use different types of procurement and tendering processes.”‘

      • Where in history is there another example of how so much money was made off of something like CO2?

        CO2 is a money making machine!

      • WUWT, July 15, 2014

        Chart of natural sources of CO2 annual emissions in order top down:
        Ocean, #1, in PgC
        Microbial Activity
        Insect Activity
        Frozen Terrestrial
        Volcanic Activity
        Forest Fires
        Mammilia
        Anthropogenic, last in order and caused by human activity.

        Data sources: IPCC, NASA NOAA 2005-2006

        http://www.wattsupwiththat.com/2014/07/15/what-an-engineer-finds-extraordinary-about-climate/#-112938

        Some would have the public thinking that Anthropogenic is number 1.
        CO2 needs to be put into perspective.

        Lower CO2 by getting rid of some microbial and insect activity?

  6. Sunday Sermons: “Don’t forget to NOT blame the victims”

    As the masses awaken to the greatest economic and environmental fraud of all-time, that is industrial wind energy perpetration, unavoidable questions about ‘how did this happen!’ dominate our thoughts.

    Many people think, “I’m not stupid.” And yet, they are perplexed about how they could have failed to understand wind turbine issues that have been raging for years. Indeed, the information has been available for the taking, so how come so few people have bothered to understand it?

    There are many reasons: everybody has things to do; many people lack the training to be able to understand the issues; perhaps it’s laziness and a lack of courage. But most importantly, it’s because we pay taxes to live in the once-great country of Canada, where we oughtta have the reasonable expectation that our governments are NOT lying to us. So when faced with the choice, “who do we believe- our governments or these outraged rural Ontarians,” it’s natural to want to believe our governments.

    But, as we now know about industrial wind energy, there is no greater con-job. It is complete with a sophisticated brain-washing scheme, in part designed to “confuse the public.”

    And this is a hard reality to accept. “Played a fool,” is a rather embarrassing admission.

    And so we’ve seen in some people a willingness to “shoot the messenger.” They accuse that pro-health, pro-community, pro-science wind turbine whistle-blowers have not done a very good job of communicating the issues. This, my friends, is not true.

    [to be continued…]

  7. Memoirs and Reflections
    by Roy McMurtry
    (c) Osgoode Society for Canadian Legal History 2013

    pages 64-65: Articling Student

    ‘[excerpt] Thompson had grown up in a small Ontario town, and he worked
    hard to maintain the grass-roots persona he used effectively with juries
    throughout Ontario. He was determined to avoid being viewed as a
    “big city” lawyer. Outside Toronto, local counsel invariably followed
    a strategy that let members of a local jury know whenever opposing
    counsel came from Toronto. Their frequent references to “my learned
    friend from Toronto” were less effective when Thompson was the op-
    posing counsel. He avoided complicated legal terms and forensic elo-
    quence in favour of a more earthy “Ah shucks” approach. Whenever
    opposing counsel in a jury trial introduced a detailed survey or plan of
    an accident scene as an exhibit, for instance, he would deliberately hold
    the exhibit upside down while appearing to be subjecting it to intense if
    confused scrutiny. Inevitably some “helpful” juror would point out to
    him that he had the sketch the wrong way round. That remark would
    usually provoke a quiet chuckle from the trial judge, who no doubt had
    witnessed the performance on many previous occasions.’

  8. By and large the needed information on IWTs has been gathered so it’s pointless to go through this again.

    Now decisions will have to be made as to which are the best approaches to end this invasion of IWTs in rural Ontario. Most likely that just one approach won’t do the job.

  9. Stinson is a perfect media and Liberal shill…………. The media were already attacking Hillier when it was becoming ever more likely that Hudak was shooting himself in the foot and would not win the election. Like good media boys they were already targeting Hillier as a potential new PC leader and so even more wacky and ‘right wing’ than Hudak.
    This ‘story’ is straight from the Liberal storyline and a direct attack on Hillier.
    Absolutely not a single valid comment with regard to dividing Ontario into ‘Toronto’ and ‘Not Toronto’. Just a patronizing and so urban viewpoint of anyone living outside the GTA.
    The green energy agenda supported by the ‘majority’ who re elected Wynne have voted for a chaotic and unsustainable provincial energy policy that will lead to a broken energy supply system.
    When the lights start to go out in Ontario I would far rather live far away from the GTA!
    Those who live in the green dream world of city and urban Ontario will be far less able to even subsist than those of us who chose a simpler rural or agricultural life. Hopefully many of us remain capable of being self reliant?
    Secession sounds not a bad idea at all…………………..
    I think there are upward of 6000 IWTs in Ontario now and thought I had seen the Liberal government already planned on doubling that to at least 12,000.
    It doesn’t really matter as based on the past 12 years of lies and deceit they will continue, for the next 4 years at least, to put up as many as they can and wherever they wish.
    Whoever appears as a new PC Leader that party is already toast. They have nothing to offer that a ‘majority’ of Ontario will go for. Both Liberals and the NDP will carry on with the policies that just re elected Wynne!
    Secession from the GTA sounds about the only sane alternative left……….. But how to make it happen?
    Andrew Watts
    PS I am no Hillier supporter and believe the current PCs are little different from both the Liberals and NDP.

    • Separation requires a vote by the people. Done most likely on a riding by riding basis to determine what the electorate in a county or part of a county wants to do.

      Who cares what the people in the GTA think or for that matter what people in other provinces think. This is not separating from Canada.

      Discussion of this issue should begin in each riding or a few surrounding ridings or at the county level? Depends on where people want to begin.

      The author of this news article seems to think that the GTA or other provinces can “nix” something like this?

    • See above discussion Martin and Barbara as to the current number of turbines in Ont.

      Wind companies deliberately talk of plate capacity output to confuse people as to the actual number of spinning turbines the wind plants will erect. Output is irrelevant as far as I can see, as no IWT on earth approaches the efficiency claimed on its name plate. It is the number of towers that we are concerned with, always avoided by the companies or the government.

      What Chiarelli did say in one of his announcements before Jun 12, was that the goal was for about 3 x as many units as already built or under construction. Like so much Liberal talk, this goal is unobtainable, but it does indicate the construction craze for IWTs has really just begun in Ont. And that is the scary part.

    • Martin, that is the issue! How many IWTs are slated for installation and what size are they. Can’t get a straight answer from them.

      it took some digging but it is planned to sell power to the States. Power plants are going to be closed there and the U.S. is looking north for power supplies from Canada.

      Developers can cash in on this U.S.situation at the expense of rural Ontarians.

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