CAPE wants “far-offshore” wind projects (and “near-onshore?”)

Gideon Forman has no medical background.  He has a degree in Philosophy.

Gideon Forman has no medical background. He has a degree in Philosophy.

John Miner, London Free Press
Ontario will miss a huge opportunity to create jobs and protect the environment if it doesn’t embrace building wind farms in the Great Lakes, an environmental group is arguing. The Canadian Association of Physicians for the Environment is calling for construction of “far-offshore” wind farms that will be out of sight and out of hearing distance of the mainland.

The group, which represents 6,000 doctors and members of the public, estimates offshore wind farms would generate a minimum of $10 billion of investment from the private sector. Gideon Forman, the group’s executive director, said the U.S. is looking seriously at offshore wind farms in the Great Lakes.

“It would be a shame to let that technology-driven leadership opportunity pass Ontarians by,” Forman said. Ontario put a moratorium on offshore wind farms in the run up to the 2011 provincial election. Read article

30 thoughts on “CAPE wants “far-offshore” wind projects (and “near-onshore?”)

  1. Admissions

    ‘[excerpt] Last week, the province invited tenders for two studies on offshore wind farms — one on the impact of sound from the turbines and the other on decommissioning a wind farm in the lake.

    But the Environment Ministry said there are no plans to go ahead with such wind farms until there is scientific evidence that projects can be developed in a way that protects both human health and the environment.

    Forman maintains far-offshore wind farms would be a source of healthy, low-carbon energy and avoid the controversy surrounding wind farms on land that some consider an eyesore.

    Wind farms on water would have another advantage over ones on land. The dynamics of wind over water makes power available throughout the day when electricity demand peaks, Forman said.

    The Ontario citizens’ group that has led the fight against wind farms on land isn’t enthused about wind farms in the lakes either.

    Jane Wilson, president of Wind Concerns Ontario, said there are grave concerns about installing wind turbines in the Great Lakes, especially Huron and Superior, where weather is severe.

    Turbines would be an added danger to navigation, she said.

    “We repeat our call for cost-benefit analysis, options analysis, and impact analysis for wind power in general,” Wilson said.’

  2. Very interesting that the Environment Ministry is saying it must have scientific evidence that off shore wind farms are not detrimental to human health and the environment yet they are ignoring all evidence in this regard and plastering them all over rural Ontario!

  3. Cost-benefit analysis for wind power? What a foreign concept; remember George Smitherman specifically rejected any such studies at the very beginning of Liberal wind follies.He replaced it with something else like social-benefit analysis, or whatever.

    The very fact that Liberals are calling for studies into lake plants demonstrates that the election is over, and that any promises made before that can be discounted now. Anyone hear the phrase “not a willing host” lately? Seems like Chiarelli and Wynne have forgotten ever uttering the words.

  4. CBC News, Sept.26, 2013

    Canada had a record high 75,142 doctors in 2012. These are physicians.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canadian-doctor-total-at-record-high-1.1869346

    CAPEas a group of doctors and others has 6,000 members. So how many actual physicians belong to CAPE? Others besides physicians have the title of doctor.

    Even if they were ALL PHYSICIANS this would only be less than 1 in 12 physicians in CAPE.

    Would Gideon care to inform the public just how many physicians belong to CAPE?

  5. “Forman maintains far-offshore wind farms would be a source of healthy, low-carbon energy”

    So would plants like Bruce Power which would generate electricity for a fraction of kwh cost of any complex wind contraption. Such plants already supply the lion’s share of Ont power; what is it about nuclear, people like Forman don’t like?
    Ont already generates about 2/3 of electricity from clean, green sources, should be the envy of many other countries. Wind power, the “solution” to exactly what problem?

  6. Looks to me like the windies grabbed their final straw. Getting a large group of Drs. to wave the big green flag to show the world how wonderful wind farms are no matter where you put them.

    Checkmate Ontario!

    I bet they dont know a thing about the issues, just that they are all stakeholders and will get a ton of money. How many people sell out for cash? Apparently lots!

    • Are there a large group of Canadian physicians who belong to CAPE?

      Even if there were 6,000 physicians as CAPE members this would only be ~1 out of 12 doctors which is about 8% but CAPE doesn’t have 6,000 physicians as members so the percentage is less than 8%.

      Show your numbers Gideon! Canada has over 75,000 physicians.

  7. “out of sight and hearing distance”???? Where are these “doctors” and members of the public when it comes to RURAL Ontario? So it’s OK to put them next to MY house but, you don’t want to see or hear them?????? What hypocrites!!!!! I say, FIRST get them out of “sight and hearing distance in rural Ontario” otherwise, place them exactly 550 meters from big city/ Toronto waterfront condos and homes!!!!! What’s good for the goose is good for the gander! Toronto is closer to where the power is needed. These people are already accustomed to noise, vibration, blinking red lights, whirling distractions. Due to the large population, there would be plenty of lab rats for these so called doctors to study for negative health effects!!!

  8. The Environment Ministry now says they have no plans to go ahead with off shore wind farm until they are developed to protect human health and the environment.

    “But the Environment Ministry said there are no plans to go ahead with such wind farms until there is scientific evidence that projects can be developed in a way that protects both human health and the environment”

    Isn’t it too bad that the Ministry didn’t have the same plan to ensure the protection of human health and the environment before building the turbines on farmland.

  9. CAPE

    CAPE is affiliated with the International Society of Doctors for the Environmnet/ISDE, Switzerland which is officially recognized by the U.N. as a non-governmental orgainzation.

    ISDE has about 20,000 members.

    http://www.cape.ca

    20,000 members world-wide is not many.

    —————————————————————————————————–

    ISDE member organizations include:

    Canada: CAPE

    U.S.A.: Physicians for Social Responsibility/PSR, Washington, D.C.

    http://www.isde.org

    People in the U.S. should also take this organization into consideration.

  10. Lmao, fools will be fools! “‘Giddy’ up cowboy.” You have sold your soul Gideon. Your greed and ignorance will cost you more than you’ll ever make. So sorry for your loss 😉

  11. It is interesting to note that a major funder of CAPE is Bullfrog Power, a company which is invested in wind turbine projects in Canada. ??????

  12. From U of T Alumni site re Gideon Forman:
    “Gideon Forman (BA 1987 Victoria) has had environment concerns all his life

    At U of T, Gideon studied philosophy and its rigour helps him as he makes his way through scientific reports.”

    Note that he studied, rather than graduated with a Philosophy degree from U of T. In other words, he has no specific qualifications whatever to speak of electricity generation, let alone to represent Physicians

    Consider his point about building turbine platforms beyond sight of mainland. The normal sight line at shoreline is roughly 3 miles. For a 400′ tower how many miles would it have to be to be out of sight? Imagine the construction costs of building towers at that depth in L Huron, or the hookup cable costs. Obviously people like Gideon never consider such mundane facts, just begin expressing whatever they feel.

    Anyone is free to express such nonsense, it’s just a shame our gullible media provide a stage to broadcast it.

    • I don’t think the big media is gullible because they are in bed with them.

      Protecting investment money is what the big media is all about.

    • A positive “marketing” image has to be created for IWTs and the media is the perfect place to do this.

  13. CAPE calling for “off-shore” wind turbines that would be out of sight and no noise problems?

    The great lakes are long narrow lakes. So to be out of sight from shore would put IWTs in the shipping lanes.

    On a clear day the tree tops on Pelee Island, Lake Erie are visible from shore which is say about 20kms/16 miles. IWTs are much taller than trees are.

    There are no mid-lake islands in Lake Ontario so people from Toronto can’t visualize this. IWTs can’t be installed in the Great Lakes shipping lanes.

    • Barbara….. I have only one comment/question. If IWTs are allowed in close proximity to airports (both public and private), since they’re deemed to present no hazard to air traffic, what’s to keep the “Wind Industry” from installing wind turbines in the shipping lanes of the Great Lakes?? Lakes Erie and Huron, I would surmise, will be the first to be considered since we’ve already got a myriad of IWTs installed onshore of both of these lakes and the visibility, or lack thereof, has never been an issue before! Besides….. Erie is already slated for the new underwater power line from Nanticoke to Erie Pennsylvania. Just “plant” a few IWTs while they’re “out there”!!

      • Worth noting is that the wind construction group built 6 to 8 towers at Bornish last winter which leaned so badly they had to be taken down. This is on flat dry land, optimal building sites, yet they couldn’t erect them properly.

        Just pause for a moment and think of Lake Huron in Nov 20 miles out and these people trying to build/repair similar structures. It is just insane to even think of such construction projects in the shipping channels of these lakes.Some common sense must be brought forth to question the likes of Forman exactly questions like this.

        (see story on Bornish towers below)

      • Are you serious John? “Plant” a wind turbine? “Save a tree, plant a wind turbine!!” it almost sounds “green” doesn’t it? This just keeps getting sillier and sillier! I can’t help but pinch myself, in hope of waking up from this outlandish dream!
        Just because the turbines are already on the coast of Lake Erie doesn’t mean it’s right. To plant turbines in Lake Erie is throwing good money after bad. Besides, it is much easier to take down a turbine than to put one up, especially in the middle of a lake in the shipping lane?!
        What is the likelyhood of infrasound interfering with navigation systems? Good grief, not again…
        Also, other important considerations:
        Clear Creek and Erie Ridges – located in Lake Erie: turbine development may disrupt sediment flow and will impact the sand spit known as Long Point, UNESCO declared Workd Biosphere Reserve and it’s many species indigenous to the spit.

        There is a fault line under Lake Erie – with construction of wind turbines in the lake there is a possibility of disturbing the fault line causing an earthquake. The earth may shift and open and swallow Ontario’s rural paupers and industrial wind turbines.
        Infrasound, vibrations will negatively impact marine life and ecosystems; as well as an impact even more the major North American migratory flyway.
        Nanticoke – what happened to the idea of shutting down this dirty facility? Eureka..scrubbers, perhaps utilize them!!

        It’s common sense that if turbines are to be built in the lake, Lake Ontario would provide a more suitable siting. These monstrosities would blend in, fit quite well actually with the skyline-sky scrapers and lights of the Big Smoke!
        Toronto folk LOVE green energy; very trendy..
        Lake Ontario would be preferred location; better facilitates where the power is needed; Toronto’s and its demand for electricity will be the city using most of the power created.
        Possibility of wind company tapping into existing Niagara Falls Hydro Electricity facility?
        Hmmmmmm

  14. There is nothing to keep IWTs from being installed in the shipping lanes?

    Was just pointing out how such stupid information can be peddled to the public. Going about 25 kms from shore to make these non-visible is a long ways.

    Don’t know how feaseable it would be to run cables directly from Lake Erie off-shore turbines to the States. But 25 kms off-shore would shorten the distance to the U.S.

    One major issue in this Nanticoke deal is the length of the contract/3yrs and electricity supply has to be 16 hrs/day for 3 days.

    Can’t be done with wind power alone. So nuclear and hydro would have to be included to guarantee this contract.

    It’s also possible that another 1,000 MWs of cable could be included in the agreement with the U.S. Government that is needed to extend this deal. This deal is just not only with PJM.

    The President, Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State all have to sign on to make this deal possible. For national security reasons to protect the U.S. grid.

    Are the people concerned with this Nanticoke deal fully informed?

    • The Nanticoke cable to Pennsylvania will be privately owned so like a private “toll-bridge” where the users have to pay to use it.

      So who are the users of the cable going to be?

    • The U.S. Government has to be assured that any power connections from/to another country will not damage the U.S. power grid. This is U.S. federal law which dates back to the 1960’s.

    • U.S. Department of Energy

      Presidential Permits-Procedures
      Executive Order 12038

      Two criteria:
      Environmental impact
      Impact on electric reliability

      Requests for,information, Presidential Permits not currently on this website can be addressed to the address supplied at the page bottom.

      http://www.energy.gov/oe/services/electricity-policy-coordination-and-implementation/international-electricity-regulatio-9

      Or: Just Google U.S. Department of Energy Presidential Permits.

      Anyone interested in Nanticoke can try the link provided for information as the Lake Erie connector project hasn’t been listed yet on this website.

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