For turbines, trust is a two-way street

trustGrimsby Lincoln News, By Amanda Moore
Ontarians are to trust that the government is doing what’s best them, but how can we trust the government when it fails to protect us? That is the question Anne Meinen has been asking since industrial wind turbines were erected next to lands she has farmed for four decades. Her issue isn’t with the turbines themselves, but with the fact that one was located closer to her property line than government regulations stipulate. And last week she heard the reason was that the government trusted the proponent. Because the proponent said the turbines met the regulations, no-one bothered to take a look.

“The MOE believed the turbines were 95 metres or greater from the property line,” Vic Schroeter told an environmental review tribunal last week. “First and foremost we trust the information submitted to us by the applicant.” First and foremost the government trusts the applicant? What about, first and foremost the government ensures the applicant meets the regulations to protect citizens?

The provincial government cannot deny that wind turbines are not always welcomed with open arms by host communities. Those who oppose these developments have brought their issues to Ontario’s doorstep. They have rallied and protested at Queen’s Park, they have written their MPPs and countless ministers as well as Premier Kathleen Wynne. Read article

33 thoughts on “For turbines, trust is a two-way street

  1. I really don’t think that there is too many people trusting this Liberal government!!!! they have failed on too many levels!! and sold out jobs and business to foreign markets!!! I call it a snatch and grab!! provincial government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    STOP THE WIND TURBINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • The problem is that there is no public will to take the government to task on “Green energy”. People think (or at least hope) that everything is OK. People *want* to believe in the myth of “free” and “green” energy. If only we could follow Germany and build enough turbines, the world would be saved. The emperor has no clothes…

      • HEY I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER!!!! – WITH THE EXEPTION THAT IF ONTAIRO WANTED TO RUN THIS PROVINCE ON WIND TRUBINES IT WOULD HAVE TO PUT UP SO MANY THAT no one WOULD BE ABLE TO MOVE AROUND THIS PROVINCE!!!!

    • “No-one bothered to look”

      The issue is why no-one looked.

      Were they instructed not to look?
      Is there a Ministry regulation that doesn’t require them to look?
      Did they just take upon themselves not to look?

      Obtaining a government contract using false information or knowingly leaving out required information is a serious offense.

      Time some questions were asked and answers demanded for the questions.

  2. How was the situation resolved? Are they moving the turbine? If not, it’s setting a precedence for wind turbine companies across Ontario. Someone needs to take responsibility and be held accountable.

  3. same old story different proponent!
    I found next error encroached over 9 acres on my land, using 104m of my so called safety zone so much for the 550m joke.

    I caught it and they told me nothing was stopping me from building my home on MY land closer to their turbine, and that no one ever died of living in the turbines shadow flicker. oh yes please that sounds fab!

    anyways, they ended up in a battle with me and used lots of tricks in the book, stating that it was the normal pattern of all other homes in the area. Hilarious! As it was not, they just didnt want to move it and ruin their draft plan. (that term should be thrown out, set in concrete would be better) Oh it was also the deputy mayors sons turbine (he lives far far away from it, he’s just a really greedy bastard selling out his property directly behind the villiage….so much for future growth in a country town) hail to the idiots!

    so they ended up having to move it back, not the 104m of course as they used the loop hole to use the maximum setback from the road and started it from there.

    I found that over half (I believe it was @ 27 out of then 38) turbines planned had reduced setbacks to other properties. a few are very close to the road including the one ON school road how nice is that! yes reduce the one on the road the kids all travel on, we trust your turbines dont throw ice. Florida wind companies are experts in winter….

    the MOE is not aware of any of this. When I spoke to them about my issue, they told me that unless an issue arises they really have no idea. Gee really? too busy rubber stamping them to actually look at the facts, they dont go over anything on paper, they leave the checkpoints to the weasels to do and trust in their words.

    So its your jobs people to police these wind aholes, even though your not getting paid for it. EVERYONE in a project zone needs to check their property lines and bring it to the neighbors attention as well.

    Next error even to this date uses my story to actually brag that they are willing to make changes to go all out and rectify situations! what nerve, they caused the situation and I caught their error.
    If I didnt get a lawyer and dig in they would have never made mention of the whole thing or changed anything.

    they’re crooked scum.

    • They never heard of TRUST BUT VERIFY!

      This present ERT involves a company that already has a contract and the IWTs are installed.

      The question is. Did this company use false information to obtain a government contract?
      It doesn’t matter if a Ministry failed to check out the information that this company submitted to them.

      At present two issues are involved here.

      Now just watch for the CYA operations to develop.

      Perhaps a situation for the OPP to investigate?

    • momabear, hope you kept any paper work you had on this situation.

      Submitting false information to obtain a government contract is a serious offense. Then to allow the submitter to “fix” things could be collusion with government employees to obtain a government contract by “fixing” things.

      Florida is a place that experiences severe storms and central Florida is another lightning capital of the world.

      Southern Ontario also experiences severe storms and is another lightning capital of the world. IWTs not suitable for Florida but suitable for Ontario.?

      • The issue/case here is these are measurements that can be verified if they are correct or not. Not a subjective issue.

  4. it doesn’t really matter Barbara. You can take it to a judge and spend tens of thousands fighting and they continue to get away with it. They have no restrictions. Just like with the community consultation that is bogus it does not matter what they submit to the MOE, the MOE allows them to change whatever they have to as each problem arises. Many cases to point to – years of sick people, abandoned homes, dirty electricity zapping livestock. No slowdown. Too bad for you, carry on Mcwynnty-Crawley et al
    The Amaranth transformer was installed without the required CofA. This would be impossible in any other event. This transformer station has destroyed neighbours lives. The MOE actually was going to relocate these families and then got shut down and closed their files. Some have left permanently, another remains trapped and sick today. That’s how problems are dealt with.
    So what happened when the municipality called out the missing CofA? The ministry simply issued them one because whoops, nobody had noticed that they didn’t have one.

  5. There could be many people yet who don’t know or ignore the fact that you can’t use false information to obtain a government contract.

    What you describe could be considered collusion as these contracts are worth millions of dollars.

    Look up the contract law. These are law enforcement matters. And also could be considered corruption as well.

    —————————————————————————————————–

    Energy & Environment Legal Institute/ E & E Legal, U.S., Sept.17, 2014

    “E & E Legal Files Referral With IRS Regarding Sierra Club And Sierra Club Foundation Tax Law Violations.”

    http://www.eelegal.org

    More information on this at this website if anyone cares to read about this situation in the U.S.

  6. Barbara, Lynn, and otthers: There is sinply no public will to fight this, so don’t expect any enforcement. If the Libs can hide the gas plants, surely they can bury all these missing or incorrect details. And as we know, all MOE has to do is tweak the rules after the fact.

    I recall someone mentioning “small claims court”. If there were numerous claims, and if those claims all required some response from the wind companies and/or MOE, this could have an impact.

    Perhaps we could do some fundraising, hire a surveyor to document a number of violations, hire a lawyer to fill out the standard documents, and give them to land owners to sign and file. Do everything for the landowner, including paying the fees. We could try this out with just one project, or even a part of a project, and see how it goes. Given a concrete goal like this, I think fundraising should be easy.

    We need to think outside the box here. I am still waiting/hoping for the Charter challenge, but there has to be something we can do in the meantime.

    Comments/discussion welcome. In the meantime, keep up the documentation, including letters to MOE, etc.

    • Hi Richard you are right!! typical Canadians sit back and complain rub their hands and say what can we do!! it drives me crazy!! – you would NOT see this happen in USA NOT without a fight!! Canadians are too passive!! – I have a friend who lives out in Selkirk at one time I know that they hired a lawyer in regards to the turbines and the taking down of the eagles nest!? ??? – I will contact her and see what the heck is going on!! and email this website!!

      STOP THE WIND TURINES!!!

    • The affected land owners can of course file a complaint or a lawsuit.

      Since these are government contracts anyone can take legal action as this affects all Ontarians.

      Suppose anyone who wanted a government contract was allowed to use false information to obtain a contract. Just what level of corruption would there be?

      • The FBI, Washington

        http://www.fbi.gov

        Use Search enter: “providing false information to obtain government contracts”

        Many instances/cases of this dealt with by the FBI for federal contracts.
        Can read about this subject here.

    • I agree with you Richard and I applaud you for the actions you have taken. The real leaders in this situation in rural Ontario are few. It requires intelligence, wit, determination and above all, courage. Right now, there are many different strategies being taken. The Charter Challenge is crucial. I hope everyone will support it somehow.
      The Office of the Ombudsman is willing to review the Renewable Energy Process. They need our input. Contact them and tell them about your efforts to have your concerns heard.
      Similarly the Office of the Integrity Commissioner needs to hear from us re: suspicions of foul play regarding financial issues.
      The conversation re: multiple simultaneous class actions is happening.
      Barbara has researched and presented so many factual details but these need to be acted on somehow.
      The more approaches we take, the better. It’s obvious that the Wynne government is overlooking the current victims of projects that already had been approved. She is ‘turning a blind eye’…. continually running from the truth. We have no choice but to bombard her with our opposition for her tolerance for their being victims of the green agenda in Ontario.

      • Sommer, read my posts at WCO regarding Parker’s article on” Social benchmarking.”

        Using psychologial “tools” /behavioral tactics on people to put this IWT scheme over might be another case for Julian.

        People need to have knowledge about situations and events so they can stand on sure ground and be able to stand up.

        It’s necessary to go through the processes of the Ombudsman and other agencies so no-one can say rural Ontarians did not do this and should have.

      • Simple Energy Inc., Boulder, Colarado

        “Using behavioral tactics and day-of-messaging, we drive significant load reductions during peak times.”

        http://www.simpleenergy.com

        How many people know what using behavioral tactics means?

      • Milton Hydro

        List: Directors/Officers of Milton Hydro
        http://www.miltonhydro.com/about-us

        Wholly owned subsidiary of Milton hydro Holdings Inc., owned by the Town of Milton.

        Has about 31,000 business and residential customers within the Town of Milton.

      • Energy Manager, July 21, 2014

        Milton Hydro:

        Elementary schools in Milton will be awarded prizes for motivating parents,students and teachers to conserve energy at home.

        When participants register for the program, they will be able to join the school challenge team of their choice.

        http://www.energy-manager.ca/industry-news/milton-hydro-drives-conservation-through-community-engagement.html

        Do elementary school children even know what behavioral tactics are let alone Milton adults?

        Maybe Ontarians will soon be “goose-stepping” if the present government has its way?

      • What a crock of nonsense regarding the Energy Minister!! – he is another one that won’t answer your questions he passes the buck like Wynne!!!!!!!!

      • FORBES, APRIL 11, 2005

        Scroll down to:

        Peer Pressure.

        “There are two elements to the approach to energy conservation. First give people good data and second, use” peer pressure.”

        Are Ontarians being told that they are being subjected to “peer pressure” and “psychological tactics”?

        http://www.forbes.com/search/?q=peer+pressure

      • Lyn, The who, where, when and why are now public about about this social benchmarking, peer pressure and use of psychological tacticts.

  7. Another idea: Is there any way to push on municipalities for zoning / land use?

    I don’t know the regulations, but if landowners could push on insurance and/or zoning issues it might be intersting. For example, file applications to put an out buidling near their property lines. These applications would (eventually) be over ruled by the GEA. But if the application process were cheap, a number of simultaneous applications could pose a significant burdent for zoning authorities.

    Again, we need something that is: inexpensive to file, requires individual response, and could be made into a turnkey system for landowners to file.

    I am aiming for asymmetric warfare: easy and inexpensive for landowners, expensive for government and wind proponents…

  8. Richard, I agree with you.

    However people need to know what contract law is and you can just bet that very few who are against IWTs know what the law is regarding procurement of government contracts.

    Engage a lawyer to explain this or look up the information yourselves. All lawyers have had courses in contract law.

    And I’ve had courses in contract law but am not a lawyer.

    Measurements are factual information.

    • No one in this province can trust this Liberal government!! – on several issues I have a had reply from the premier’s office – she passed the buck and then finally l received a reply from the Energy Minister” s; office and he passed the buck! – no one will commit to give you a clear answer on anything!! – that to me is a big red flag!!!!

      STOP THE WIND TURBINES

      • Indeed it is a big red flag!

        The information supplied by anyone to get a government contract can be checked for false information.

        As long as the public doesn’t know this can’t be done, anyone can get away with this.

        It’s the party trying to get a contract that is responsible. Not checking it out, on the part of the government, any information supplied is not an excuse.

      • Hmmmmmmm what is that old saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! – we have the fox watching the hen house!!!!!!!!!

  9. From my perspective and based on my many appeals to the Ontario Ombudsman’s office, they are NOT willing to investigate wind turbine issues, and they defer to the Ontario government about everything related to IWT, including the 2010 CMOH report (even though it has been thoroughly discreditted.)

    The Office of the Integrity Commissioner recently wrote to me stating their mandate “would not include wind turbines.” But one Member of Provincial Parliament, Toby Barrett, described the MNR’s approval of eagle nests destruction in 2013 as “CORRUPTION.” Something doesn’t add up here???

    IMO, the intentional neglect by the Ontario Ombudsman and Office of the Integrity Commissioner of these most important issues over the last several years, points to their critical role in this IWT racket. They cannot describe themselves as being impartial about these matters.

    Why would any rational thinking person believe the Ontario Ombudsman and Office of the Integrity Commissioner are going to help victims?

  10. Help victims? Lmao! You’re right. I wouldn’t expect any less in “Ontario”. C O R R U P T as hell. Let’s not talk about that either 😉 It’s a sad story.

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