High Ontario power rates blamed for deterring investment

2014_06010078CBC News
A growing number of Ontario mayors and manufacturers say the province’s energy prices and infrastructure are bad for business.

According to the Association of Major Power Consumers of Ontario, industrial customers pay approximately $85 per megawatt hour in Ontario when all components of the price of electricity is included. That’s more than double the $40 average paid in neighbouring provinces Manitoba, Quebec and the state of Michigan.

Ian Howcroft, the vice president of the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters Ontario, said energy is a major factor when companies look to invest or expand in the province. “Companies are looking at all costs. It could be a deal breaker,” Howcroft said of energy rates. “Ontario is a high-cost jurisdiction, especially with the high dollar.

“It could be the straw that broke the investment camel’s back.” Howcroft said energy could account for as much as 30 per cent of a company’s expense, especially in mining and foundries. Read article

57 thoughts on “High Ontario power rates blamed for deterring investment

  1. McWynn doesn’t seem to be bothered by this old news and all her cronies will always support this scam and agenda. Keep voting in these lying bastards, you get what you wished for!

  2. Energy Minister Chiarelli – not – ‘For the People’

    One of a series of Mr. Chiarelli’s messages:
    ‘[excerpt] Ontario’s Ministry of Energy maintains its rates are competitive.’

    The History of Sir Adam Beck
    ‘[excerpt] Sir Adam Beck was a prosperous London, Ontario, manufacturer, who was simultaneously the Mayor and the Conservative member of the provincial Legislature (which was then permitted). Given Ontario’s water power resources at Niagara, Beck was an early champion of municipal and provincial electric power ownership to spur economic development. When his party won the election of 1905, the time was right for Beck to implement his conviction that power from Niagara Falls should be available at cost to Ontario municipalities. In the government of Conservative Leader, James Whitney, Beck became “Power Minister” and chairman of the Hydro-Electric Power Commission of Ontario, the world’s first publicly-owned utility.

    Its initial project was to build a 110,000-volt transmission line from Niagara Falls to carry power to southwestern Ontario municipalities, including Toronto and 13 other municipalities. On October 11, 1910, Beck held his first ceremonial “switch-on” in Berlin (now Kitchener). He pressed the switch, a street sign saying “For the People” lit up and the town went wild.’
    http://www.niagaraparks.com/niagara-falls-attractions/sir-adam-beck-history.html

    ———————————————————————————————————————–

    Finally?
    Balancing the power of Ontario mayors!

    ‘[excerpt] A growing number of Ontario mayors and manufacturers say the province’s energy prices and infrastructure are bad for business.’

    ‘[excerpt] Ian Howcroft, the vice president of the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters Ontario, said energy is a major factor when companies look to invest or expand in the province. “Companies are looking at all costs. It could be a deal breaker,” Howcroft said of energy rates. “Ontario is a high-cost jurisdiction, especially with the high dollar.

    “It could be the straw that broke the investment camel’s back.” Howcroft said energy could account for as much as 30 per cent of a company’s expense, especially in mining and foundries.’

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Chiarelli should resign – just like former Energy Minister Dwight Duncan did – saying
    he did not understand the energy portfolio.
    Finance worked? Ugh!
    Oh well – stay true to yourself.

    What are you waiting for Mr. Chiarelli?

    • Unbelievable!

      After sitting vacant for almost two years, plans are in motion to demolish the home where Sir Adam Beck was born.

      One of Baden’s most famous residents, Beck brought a public hydro system to Ontario and it was his father, Jacob Beck who founded the town.

      The house at 144 Foundry Street was built in the 1800s and has had multiple owners over the years, but it was never designated a heritage property. The home is in poor condition.

      “The house had been divided up into apartments on the lower floor, and not much of the original materials survived, such as door cases and panelling, or baseboards,” said Marg Rowell with Heritage Wilmot.

      The estate hopes tearing the house down will make the property more appealing to buyers.

      Heritage Wilmot and the estate have agreed that the heritage group will keep some parts of the house to build a commemorative display, such as beams from the basement, and stones from the foundation.

      “I think it’s always sad when you lose a piece of your early history,” Rowell said.

      A date for the demolition has not been set.

      Read more: http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/baden-home-where-sir-adam-beck-was-born-to-be-demolished-1.2040335#ixzz3OFKoI2jd

  3. Reckless.

    ‘[excerpt]] Tom Vinson of the American Wind Energy Association says the wind industry supports marking towers with orange-and-white paint, and putting up orange balls on guy wires.

    But lighting is trickier because towers are often in remote locations without a power source. And wind farm development is a very competitive process. That’s why the database with each tower’s location is a thornier recommendation.

    “People are very hesitant to let competitors know where they may be looking, and so there has been some concern about having widely available public databases,” Vinson says.

    Since 2000, three pilots have died after striking unmarked METs. Just this September, the family of a California pilot was awarded a $6.7 million wrongful death settlement after his crash into an unmarked MET.’

    “For Crop-Duster Pilots, Wind Towers Present Danger”
    Harvest Public Media: npr.org
    Jacob McCleland
    17 December 2014
    http://stopthesethings.com/2015/01/08/wind-farm-met-masts-become-crop-dusters-mortal-enemies/

  4. Note that CBC is not accepting comments.
    Many other media, including BBC, Scientific American, and others, are not accepting comments either.
    They claim “we get too many trolls”.
    The real problem is they don’t want to accept comments on anything related to Wind Turbines or Climate…

    • Our “national broadcaster” wants to continue to fool the people into thinking that it does not cater to certain corporations and governments. They suppress comments, even when their submission guidelines are met, that suggest we are on to them. They allow downright nasty, even libelist comments about “cons” while censoring stuff which is critical of Trudeau, Wynne and other so-called Leftists. Well, we have caught on, CBC, and we will swallow our disappointment in you so that our throats are free to spread the word that you have zero cred. Many more should go the way of Chris Boyce.

      • It saddens me to see CBC doing this. I used to be a big supporter of CBC.

        It is a shame that our institutions have failed to inform and to protect us.

    • Their complicity will not be forgotten when this whole fiasco unravels.
      I gave up on CBC more than 10 years ago.

  5. Who would want it invest in Ontario? The average market price for the year is approaching 9 cents in November. That is not including all the other charges! The global adjustment for October was 10 cents a kilowatt hour. We are currently exporting 4 200 megawatts to other states and provinces. All this from the ieso website! No wonder manufacturers do not want to invest in Ontario. I bet 2014 was a record year for electricity exports. Power prices just keep on rising. Also check out the Ontario yearbook of distributers and you will see total power costs increasing since 2009 which was the same year as the GEA was passed.

    Links

    http://www.ieso.ca/Pages/Power-Data/default.aspx#supply

    http://www.ieso.ca/Pages/Power-Data/Price.aspx

    • Investment opportunities for renewable energy projects had to be created in Ontario and they are created at the expense of everything else.

      • It reminds me of what is happening in Germany. Their household rates are 29 cents per kilowatt hour I believe. And the more we add the more the price goes up. If you have not seen the OEB yearbook of distributors cost of power graph check it out sometime great info

    • Hey Tye,

      Seeing is believing!

      High school curriculum:
      political science,
      and assignment questions.

      Can you post – your assignment paper?

      Thanks!

    • Tye, why is political science considered to be a science? Do you have a course textbook which defines this?

      • It is a science because it is the study of Politics and policys and how they affect a nation.

        Can you please answer my question?

        Thanks,
        Tye

      • Neither policy or politics is a science. Compare this with the definition of science.

        Choose one or a very few of the Harris & Wynne policies and compare them with the outcomes of the selected policies. Otherwise you won’t have enough time to finish the work.

        If politicians did all bad things then they would be un-elected by the voters. Except in the case of dictators where the people can’t do anything about policies.

        Choose which policy/
        policies that you want people to comment on.

      • Policy can be based or developed from scientific information but policy itself is not a science.

      • “Political science is a social science discipline concerned with the study of the state, nation, government, and politics and policies of government. Aristotle defined it as the study of the state.”-From a google search

        I hope this answers your question in better detail.

        Thanks for all the help,
        Tye

      • Manufacturers that use lots of electricity (pulp and paper, steel mills) would not want to set up shop here because Quebec’s rates are almost half of ours. Electricity is not the only factor but is a important one. Just my thoughts…

      • Your topic will be economic policy as related to electric power policy.

        You can’t do much better than to quote from Aristotle.

      • .Hey Tye? Try this on for political science .betch ya they forget to teach this interesting true fact,
        COMMAND AND CONTROL: The courts and governments are the system slaves within, bought and paid for where the true command and control aspects are the POLICE/MILITARY as the front line dogs and fear contractors for those above the courts and governments such as the BANKS/RELIGIONS and those that control them. The courts and governments are merely the filler for this “sandwich” of deception and illusion. Without the ability to CONTRACT via any/all NAMES at the front line level, the whole system of control is destroyed, most importantly those at the very top of this spiritual slavery pyramid. Without the NAME, all levels above are ultimately annihilated completely.

  6. The brow-outs in Leamington are due to lack of power? Or poor transmission upgrades? Or disruptions from electricity produced by industrial wind turbines?
    CBC could do a better investigation.

    • Hydro One, Glossary of Terms

      Scroll down to: Loop Flow

      “Loop flows are unscheduled flows of electricity that result because electricity obeys the laws of physics and doesn’t obey system operators. A well known loop flow that affects Ontario occurs around Lake Erie, starting at Niagara and exiting Ontario through our ties to the United States at the Michigan border. Hydro One and Detroit Edison are presently upgrading the interconnection between Ontario and Michigan. The project includes equipment designed to control this loop flow.”

      Also see: ‘Market Clearing Price’ on the this same page.

      http://www.hydroone.com/OurCompany/Pages/Glossary.aspx

      The transmission towers and lines from Niagara to Detroit were installed in the mid-1950’s or about the same time the 401 was being built.

      As I recall, Leamington does not have sufficient transmission resources and this was supposed to be fixed?

      • Heinz used to sell excess power to the grid. Parker included this information in one of his posts.

        Don’t know what the situation there is now.

  7. Manufacturers that use lots of electricity (pulp and paper, steel mills) would not want to set up shop here because Quebec’s rates are almost half of ours. Electricity is not the only factor but is a important one. Just my thoughts…

  8. Hey Tye,
    Sometimes you have to stray from the path…………

    political science
    noun

    : the study of governments and how they work

    Academic discipline concerned with the empirical study of government and politics. Political scientists have investigated the nature of states, the functions performed by governments, voter behaviour, political parties, political culture, political economy, and public opinion, among other topics. Though it has roots in the political philosophies of Plato and Aristotle, political science in the modern sense did not begin until the 19th century, when many of the social sciences were established. Its empirical and generally scientific orientation is traceable to the work of Henri de Saint-Simon and Auguste Comte. The first institution dedicated to its study, the Free School of Political Science, was founded in Paris in 1871.
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/political%20science

    Find your passion!

  9. Hey Tye,
    Many have referred to politics – as – a ‘blood sport’.

    To write about it:
    Sometimes you have to put your neck on the line.

    Sounds exciting!

    • This past week USD$1.00 sold/exchanged was ~C$1.15. But the exchange rate might be a little less on large amounts of money exchanged. You got ~ C$1.15 for each USD dollar for individuals.

      Ontario excess power sold to the U.S. lost about ~C$0.15/dollar in value? Or was the exchange rate figured into the sales amounts received for Ontario power?

      This has quite an overall effect on renewable energy projects.

      This also known as foreign exchange risk on investments.

      • Wikipedia, Foreign Exchange Risk

        “Investors and businesses exporting and importing goods and services or making foreign investments have an exchange rate risk which can have severe financial consequences; but steps can be taken to manage (i.e. reduce) the risk.”

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_risk

        Does IESO have any policies/proceedures to manage the exchange rate risk on the sale of electric power to the U.S.?

    • Wikipedia, Bretton Woods System

      Under the Bretton Woods System, est.1944/45, foreign exchange rates were fixed by member countries. Companies doing international business didn’t have to pay much attention to exchange rates.

      The System ended c.1971 and since that time companies doing business in foreign countries do have to deal with exchange rate fluctuations. Since then other financial ways to deal with the exchange rate fluctuations were devised to help manage the risks. involved.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

  10. I have emailed our Energy Minister over and over again – he will NOT respond! – I have asked him over and over again since the wind turbines are not benefiting the average Ontario taxpayer!! JUST WHO IS BENEFITING FROM THEM???????????????????????

    Barb I have asked you before!! why am I not receiving any updates on turbine info????????

    Thanks Lyn

    • from the article:

      ‘[excerpt] Michael Goggin, of the American Wind Energy Association […] He added, “When your building a power plant today your not just thinking about what the price of fuel is today, you should be thinking about what the price of fuel will be over the life of that power plant. You will always know what the price will be (its’ free, the only costs are mechanical). You can’t say that about any other energy source.”’

      What is the definition of “free”?

      “Coal is “free”, the only costs are mechanical”?

    • Quebec makes more money from selling electricity to the States than they would selling it to Ontario.

      Seems Quebec is already maxed out in the winter anyway. At least last winter they were.

      This is an issue sold to the ignorant public to make them think Quebec can supply power to Ontario.

      The MSM is engaged in spreading this kind of information.

  11. Flashback!

    Monday, January 24, 2011

    Ontario paid to give power away to Quebec, U.S.

    “When you’ve got that surplus, it actually becomes a hazard to the system. You have to dispose of that energy so we were going around to our neighbours, begging them to take our disposal problem,” energy expert Tom Adams told CTV Toronto.

    “We’ve got this excess and that proves to be expensive.”

    Wind farm operators are paid for windy days whether their energy is used or not, which is why Ontario Hydro customers still pick up the bill.

    Occurrences such as the one on New Year’s Day are likely to cost customers millions over the next few years.

    A new report is predicting Ontario will commonly have a surplus of energy in the future.

    “Ontario is doing our neighbours a huge favour at the expense of consumers here,” Adams said.

    Read more: http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-paid-to-give-power-away-to-quebec-u-s-1.599345#ixzz3OTTenXTc

  12. Just the facts!

    ‘[excerpt] The Driving Force

    ”The province’s wind and solar power initiatives were decided and implemented in such haste
    that “no comprehensive business-case evaluation was done to objectively evaluate the impacts
    of the billion-dollar commitment.”
    Auditor General of Ontario

    The Liberals introduced and passed the Green Energy Act 2009.
    The NDP have supported the Liberals on wind energy since its inception.
    The PC’s do not support subsidized wind power.’

    —————————————————————————————————————–

    ‘[excerpt] Every project could be stopped today; if the Liberals want to.

    The Ontario Government has the discretionary power to cancel or modify these contracts but it’s clear they don’t want to.

    An Ontario court ruling in the decision of Trillium vs. Ontario, 2013, clearly states that:
    “Governments are free to alter policies in the public interest.”
    “Companies in the renewable power business participate in government subsidy programs ‘at their own risk’.”

    As of March, 2014, the Liberals are continuing with the 55 incomplete wind power projects (about 4900 turbines) that could be stopped legally.

    “If you are asking me, will you cancel those [wind project] contracts outright? The answer is no we won’t!”
    Kathleen Wynne, in Kincardine, April 24, 2014

    For ruling, refer to Discussion at the bottom of this page

    ——————————————————————————————————————

    [excerpt] “We propose scrapping the Green Energy Act and implementing an immediate moratorium
    on industrial wind turbines until the jury is in on health and environmental studies.
    We will not sign any more FIT contracts and will take a look at the existing ones.”
    PC MPP Toby Barrett, April 2, 2014’

    ——————————————————————————————————————

    ‘[excerpt] Manufacturing is leaving Ontario.

    “Ontario has the highest industrial rates in North America.”
    Association of Major Power Consumers in Ontario. Refer to Sources for complete report.

    Caterpillar (2 plants), United Steel. Heinz, Bicks, International Trucking,
    General Motors, Navistar, Kellogg’s, John Deer, Lance Bakeries, Kraft Foods, Unilever.

    NOVA Chemicals says the cost of power is critical in its decision to locate a multi-billion-dollar polyethylene expansion in Sarnia Ontario.
    Their alternative is the U.S. Gulf Coast where rates are a fraction of ours.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ontario-drives-manufacturers-away-with-overpriced-electricity/article14854752/

    Since 2006, power demand has decreased by 6%.
    Ontario has almost 1 million people out of work.
    Ontario’s near $300 billion debt is the worst in North America.

    “Ontario’s economy has not performed on par with the rest of Canada,
    due in part to its slow economic growth and spiralling public debt.”
    Fraser Institute, April 2014. Refer to Sources for complete report.’
    http://www.windontario.ca/

    Another fact:
    Ontario volunteers – to save the planet!
    And the liberals have a majority.

  13. It is like Ontario did the same thing as Europe (especially Germany). Rushed into renewables without a business plan and did it to make it look like they were helping the planet which they were in a way. This lead to consumers bills increasing.. Renewable energy is good but there has to be a business plan for it with minimal subsides.. Just my thoughts

    Thanks,
    Tye

    • Ontario copied the German plan in getting into the renewable energy business. This is where the feed-in tariffs ideas came from.

      The Bretton Woods System was monetary POLICY to fix exchange rates among countries to make doing business easier after WW 2.

      When this political POLICY ended, c.1971, it became more difficult to conduct international business due to fluctuating money exchange issues. This was policy change.

      As long as the Canadian dollar was high not as much money was lost dumping/selling Ontario surplus power as is now lost.

      Now the Canadian dollar has lost value it will cost Ontarians even more money to dump the excess power mostly to the States. The States get an even bigger bargain.

      The Canadian economy is largely a natural resource based economy and oil is a natural resource.

      Policy and politics are involved in the energy business.

      • I think the Canadian exchange rate was set at .90 cents against $1.00 for the USD right after the end of WW 2. Set exchange rates ended c.1971. Ending the fixed exchange rates then allowed for “floating” exchange rates which we now have.

    • Under the old Ontario Hydro system it was illegal for private companies to sell power to the old Hydro system. There was court ruling about this situation. Done under the Harris government.

      So the old Hydro system was broken up into “private” crown owned companies under the Harris government which then made it legal to sell power produced by private companies to the Ontario electric system.

      This policy has been continued under the McGuinty and Wynne governments.

      And now private renewable energy companies are first in line, POLICY, thru PPAs to sell power to the government at guaranteed prices for 20 years. If these private companies were not first in line to get the money these renewable energy projects could not be paid for. And little or no money would be invested in renewable energy projects.

      This is government policy affecting business investments.

      • Hey Barbara,

        Not exactly – as you’ve stated above.

  14. The Ontario clean energy benefit is costing us One billion a year! We are paying with our tax dollars to take 10% off our hydro bills.. What is the point of it? So what do you guys think.. Also it is in the Ontario budget if you are wondering where I got the number..

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